43 replies to this topic

[Fruity_Goodness]

Elvis & Slotto are RANDOM and work on a RNG

What's that, a joke? No fruit machine is random or works on a RNG. It's like those roulette machine in the bookies .... If they rely on a random number sent down a network then the obvious question is "If they work on a random number principle then why can't they just be standalone".

Something a bit stinky going on here. A bit stinky, and very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very dirty.

[Daza5056]

What's that, a joke? No fruit machine is random or works on a RNG. It's like those roulette machine in the bookies .... If they rely on a random number sent down a network then the obvious question is "If they work on a random number principle then why can't they just be standalone"..

I think your talking out of your f***in arse...

Of course they are RANDOM - that is why by law they have to have an EXTERNAL RNG fitted to them and they also display on screen THIS MACHINE IS 100% RANDOM
If the machine isn't fitted to a RNG then the programme will not run --- don't believe me then ask a few people on here.

Try NAILS as he owns a S16 machine (Random Spinner)
Also ask JAMES as he simulated some

[impact]

rng machine work on spins from 25000 to 65000-1 so i have been told by two companys my mouth is like zippy all zipped up don`t ask

50p x 25000 spins = £12500
Between
50p x 65000 spins = £32500

so guy`s if this is the true theres the odds of the £500 just rolling in i don`t have a spare £32500 to try this please mr bank manager i love you long time

[mrmystery83]

wise choice - FORTUNE 2000 is a RANDOM machine

Yeah that's the one. Blimey i didn't know that cheers for the pointer. Wonder how big the hopper is on it? Suppose it wouldn't matter if the payout is by ticket anyways.

Suprised they've got a license for that. Don't see them in many places. I've heard it's quite popular though. It's the only 2k JP machine i've ever seen. Are there any more anyone knows of?

[DildoDez]

Yeah that's the one. Blimey i didn't know that cheers for the pointer. Wonder how big the hopper is on it? Suppose it wouldn't matter if the payout is by ticket anyways.

Suprised they've got a license for that. Don't see them in many places. I've heard it's quite popular though. It's the only 2k JP machine i've ever seen. Are there any more anyone knows of?

They aren't any different to the old slot cards you used to get in some clubs, so they are licence free, believe it or not!

[TheMission]

What's that, a joke? No fruit machine is random or works on a RNG.

No it's not a joke. You are obviously yet another armchair fruity expert who hasn't the slightest idea what they're on about.

[Daza5056]

It's the only 2k JP machine i've ever seen. Are there any more anyone knows of?

You ever been in a casino ?

Most of the Fruit Machines in there are a £4,000 JP (£0.50 to £2.00 Stake)

You even have a few that you can stake as little as 1p to win a £2,000 JP
(£0.01 to £2.00 Stake)

[skabaz]

the £2000 jackpot machine that you have in your club might not be there for much longer as its a small loophole in the law at the moment.

as said before its not classed as a fruit machine but its classed as a lottery machine.

baz

[mrmystery83]

the £2000 jackpot machine that you have in your club might not be there for much longer as its a small loophole in the law at the moment.

as said before its not classed as a fruit machine but its classed as a lottery machine.

baz

Oh right. Well i wonder why more places haven't jumped on the bandwagon before? Not much point now if they're gonna be outlawed soon anyways i guess.

I know machines in Casinos obviously have big JP's, i meant you don't see many 2k machines outside of casinos.

[jamesb99_1999]

Probably been asked before...

But does anybody reckon we are going to see lots and lots of S16s on ebay in the very near future for a knock down price.. Or do people think they are just going to load new code on the same machines to modify them??

What about the progressive pots, does this mean that they will go to as they have them all over Spain and I like the idea?

[Fruity_Goodness]

No it's not a joke. You are obviously yet another armchair fruity expert who hasn't the slightest idea what they're on about.

Well OK, so they have now introduced fruities which work on an external networked RNG, just like the roulette machines in the bookies.

That just means that instead of having just the one way of winning you now have two, namely NO WAY & NO HOW.

But the question remains: Why do these machines need an EXTERNAL RNG? Why can a supposedly random machine not generate it own random numbers?

Using a nice little RNG like this one:

/*
A C-program for MT19937, with initialization improved 2002/1/26.
Coded by Takuji Nishimura and Makoto Matsumoto.

Before using, initialize the state by using init_genrand(seed)
or init_by_array(init_key, key_length).

Copyright © 1997 - 2002, Makoto Matsumoto and Takuji Nishimura,
All rights reserved.

Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without
modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions
are met:

1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright
notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.

2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright
notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the
documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.

3. The names of its contributors may not be used to endorse or promote
products derived from this software without specific prior written
permission.

THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND CONTRIBUTORS
"AS IS" AND ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT
LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR
A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE COPYRIGHT OWNER OR
CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,
EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO,
PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR
PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF
LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING
NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF THIS
SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE.


Any feedback is very welcome.
Mersenne Twister: A random number generator (since 1997/10)
email: m-mat @ math.sci.hiroshima-u.ac.jp (remove space)
*/

/* Period parameters */
#define N 624
#define M 397
#define MATRIX_A 0x9908b0dfUL /* constant vector a */
#define UPPER_MASK 0x80000000UL /* most significant w-r bits */
#define LOWER_MASK 0x7fffffffUL /* least significant r bits */

static unsigned long mt[N]; /* the array for the state vector */
static int mti=N+1; /* mti==N+1 means mt[N] is not initialized */

/* initializes mt[N] with a seed */
void init_genrand(unsigned long s)
{
mt[0]= s & 0xffffffffUL;
for (mti=1; mti mt[mti] =
(1812433253UL * (mt[mti-1] ^ (mt[mti-1] >> 30)) + mti);
/* See Knuth TAOCP Vol2. 3rd Ed. P.106 for multiplier. */
/* In the previous versions, MSBs of the seed affect */
/* only MSBs of the array mt[]. */
/* 2002/01/09 modified by Makoto Matsumoto */
mt[mti] &= 0xffffffffUL;
/* for >32 bit machines */
}
}

/* initialize by an array with array-length */
/* init_key is the array for initializing keys */
/* key_length is its length */
/* slight change for C++, 2004/2/26 */
void init_by_array(unsigned long init_key[], int key_length)
{
int i, j, k;
init_genrand(19650218UL);
i=1; j=0;
k = (N>key_length ? N : key_length);
for (; k; k--) {
mt[i] = (mt[i] ^ ((mt[i-1] ^ (mt[i-1] >> 30)) * 1664525UL))
+ init_key[j] + j; /* non linear */
mt[i] &= 0xffffffffUL; /* for WORDSIZE > 32 machines */
i++; j++;
if (i>=N) { mt[0] = mt[N-1]; i=1; }
if (j>=key_length) j=0;
}
for (k=N-1; k; k--) {
mt[i] = (mt[i] ^ ((mt[i-1] ^ (mt[i-1] >> 30)) * 1566083941UL))
- i; /* non linear */
mt[i] &= 0xffffffffUL; /* for WORDSIZE > 32 machines */
i++;
if (i>=N) { mt[0] = mt[N-1]; i=1; }
}

mt[0] = 0x80000000UL; /* MSB is 1; assuring non-zero initial array */
}

/* generates a random number on [0,0xffffffff]-interval */
unsigned long genrand_int32(void)
{
unsigned long y;
static unsigned long mag01[2]={0x0UL, MATRIX_A};
/* mag01[x] = x * MATRIX_A for x=0,1 */

if (mti >= N) { /* generate N words at one time */
int kk;

if (mti == N+1) /* if init_genrand() has not been called, */
init_genrand(5489UL); /* a default initial seed is used */

for (kk=0;kk y = (mt[kk]&UPPER_MASK)|(mt[kk+1]&LOWER_MASK);
mt[kk] = mt[kk+M] ^ (y >> 1) ^ mag01[y & 0x1UL];
}
for (;kk y = (mt[kk]&UPPER_MASK)|(mt[kk+1]&LOWER_MASK);
mt[kk] = mt[kk+(M-N)] ^ (y >> 1) ^ mag01[y & 0x1UL];
}
y = (mt[N-1]&UPPER_MASK)|(mt[0]&LOWER_MASK);
mt[N-1] = mt[M-1] ^ (y >> 1) ^ mag01[y & 0x1UL];

mti = 0;
}

y = mt[mti++];

/* Tempering */
y ^= (y >> 11);
y ^= (y << 7) & 0x9d2c5680UL;
y ^= (y << 15) & 0xefc60000UL;
y ^= (y >> 18);

return y;
}

/* generates a random number on [0,0x7fffffff]-interval */
long genrand_int31(void)
{
return (long)(genrand_int32()>>1);
}

/* generates a random number on [0,1]-real-interval */
double genrand_real1(void)
{
return genrand_int32()*(1.0/4294967295.0);
/* divided by 2^32-1 */
}

/* generates a random number on [0,1)-real-interval */
double genrand_real2(void)
{
return genrand_int32()*(1.0/4294967296.0);
/* divided by 2^32 */
}

/* generates a random number on (0,1)-real-interval */
double genrand_real3(void)
{
return (((double)genrand_int32()) + 0.5)*(1.0/4294967296.0);
/* divided by 2^32 */
}

/* generates a random number on [0,1) with 53-bit resolution*/
double genrand_res53(void)
{
unsigned long a=genrand_int32()>>5, b=genrand_int32()>>6;
return(a*67108864.0+*(1.0/9007199254740992.0);
}
/* These real versions are due to Isaku Wada, 2002/01/09 added */

[fistandantilus]

I take all claims of them been random with a pinch of salt, I was in a bookies a few months back and a bloke playing one of the roulette machines and seemed very annoyed presumably from taking a kicking. He started shouting at the staff that the machine was fixed and to prove it put a stake on every single number except one. He pressed the button and the empty number was landed upon. Now either he was very lucky at been unlucky as he did it just the once or their was something to his claim.

I left shortly after so didn't see what happened from then, all i can say is if i had a national network of machines and wanted to monitor or control payouts linking them all up would be very useful

[spa]

£1 divided by 2 = 2 that seems to fit into the pound rather nice then again if you are that daft to play a modern machine it kind fits that simple maths would be hard.

Nice alth, can I be your bank manager

[TheMission]

Well OK, so they have now introduced fruities which work on an external networked RNG, just like the roulette machines in the bookies.

That just means that instead of having just the one way of winning you now have two, namely NO WAY & NO HOW.

But the question remains: Why do these machines need an EXTERNAL RNG? Why can a supposedly random machine not generate it own random numbers?

Using a nice little RNG like this one:

The machines need an external RNG because it is what the machine standards dictate they must have. It's got sod all to do with what is or is not technically possible. Surely you weren't suggesting that it was because no-one had figured out how to do it?

[madred]

with reference to the s16's being cheap on ebay.....a mate of mine who is a manager in an arcade near me told me they (or some of them) are to be reprogrammed with a maximum stake of £1 per spin but still with £500 jp! (apparently some of them cannot be reprogrammed and will be scrapped)
i understand the fact that these s16 machines are random but can anybody tell me why random spinner seams to have set reel patterns?
(i am not as clued up as to the workings of fruit machines as some of you guys and if the above information is common knowledge i appologise!!)

[Daza5056]

The RNG contains something like 512,000 numbers (half of these will result in no win)

As with most S16 machines when a RANDOM NUMBER is generated then there are certain screen paterns that will show that win (or in most cases the losing spin)
So each win may only have 3 or 4 different screen patterns - so when you keep winning £1 on Random Spinner it will show one of the patterns that corresponds to that win ---- hence it looks like you get a lot of the same wins all the time.

For instance a win of £20 may show this as either:
Screen combinations totalling £20
Spinner Feature with £20 result
Dice Feature with £20 result

[TheMission]

The RNG contains something like 512,000 numbers (half of these will result in no win)

Some RNGs have a LOT more than this e.g. 2^31 = approx 2,147 million!

The conversion to £1/£500 JP is to fit in with the new Category B3 regs. However, there will no longer be any requirement for these machines to be random, as there was under S16 - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

[Daza5056]

The conversion to £1/£500 JP is to fit in with the new Category B3 regs. However, there will no longer be any requirement for these machines to be random, as there was under S16 - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

Well a machine working on a percentage (Rather than Random) is going to be better --- after all it will have to pay out after so much has been put in (Unlike shoving £5000 into a S16 hoping for it to pay out)

Why do so many people ask the same question over and over again when you as sat near these machines "Has this paid out yet ?"
And when you tell them that a random machine doesn't matter if it has paid out or not, they look at you gone out !! - that is why they are Random... The machine has no idea what it has paid out (that is down to the RNG)

=============================================
Anyway - it's been posted before, but here is what is happening to the S16 machines come September:

http://www.barcrestgroup.com/september

=============================================

[jamesb99_1999]

Do we expect loads of the none-conversions on ebay?? Or will they strip the cabinets do you think?? None-Barcrest stuff as well.. Wonder if they would allow anybody to release versions of their Section16s come September?? Not me but anybody else.... Although from what I have been told Barcrest are an absolute loads of tossers - there was a survey somewhere that I read saying people would rather eat their own legs than do anything with that company.