39 replies to this topic

[DickDonkey]

There seem to be a lot of people criticising fairplay without even reading the site. They say that they don't want random machines at all.

[ziggy]

I think if its going to have any impact at all it needs someone sensible to speak out for it.If any of Degsworthys rambling on pf are used in court, it wont be going very far.

I appreciate what Fairplay are all about and their aims ect.But as a previous post said it clearly states on the front of all machine that the minimium percentage is 70%.Therefore it is up to the machine how this 70% is distrubuted to the player isnt it ?

Who really cares if a machine goes from an 11 to a 12 when it wants to.And iam sure its not suprise to us that doing a ram reset and reversing the same gamble by going higher than an 11 instead of lower produces a losing gamble as well.

Doesnt the minimium % sticker cover its ass in that respect ?

[ReelCrazy]

I am all for it. The amount of money I have spent over the years (also as a child) is scary. Ban under 18's from playing 5p play machines I say.

[barcrest]

I think if its going to have any impact at all it needs someone sensible to speak out for it.If any of Degsworthys rambling on pf are used in court, it wont be going very far.

I appreciate what Fairplay are all about and their aims ect.But as a previous post said it clearly states on the front of all machine that the minimium percentage is 70%.Therefore it is up to the machine how this 70% is distrubuted to the player isnt it ?

Who really cares if a machine goes from an 11 to a 12 when it wants to.And iam sure its not suprise to us that doing a ram reset and reversing the same gamble by going higher than an 11 instead of lower produces a losing gamble as well.

Doesnt the minimium % sticker cover its ass in that respect ?

Your missing the point. What they are saying is when you get a gamble where no matter what number you pick you loose this is illegal. If the sticker said 0% payout then it would be o.k. You can't call something that you will loose no matter what a gamble.

[ziggy]

I see what your saying , but, how can you call a no win gamble illegal ? As we all know the percentage is made up over almost 10000 games if not more.

I think the under age ( under 18 ) argument they have makes more sense.

It should not be possible to win every gamble. ie on a hi/lo ladder.Do you think it should Barcrest ? I f it did it would mean doing away with percentage play and bringing in random machines ( or one armed bandits).No harcore gambler would ever appreciate that, or addict for that matter.

I know you wont agree with me but thats my humble opinion.

[Memap]

indeed

until we get new technology to emulate (MPU5, scorpion4 etc) then the scene can legitimately rest as far as the emulaion goes....it's now down to the layout ppl to keep it going.

Don't forget its the fruit machine companies that don't want you to have the roms and technology to emulate. Why would they do that? If their machines are legal then they have nothing to hide. On the other hand...the only machines we get to play are that old they may not apply to the law in the same way...either way the law doesnt get upheld in any way except a few labels on the front of the machines saying "payout 70%" ....why doesn't it show the percentage as a variable figure? cuz we would never play em on low percentage routines. Why? Because you cant win....

I've got to disagree.
The whole ethos behind emulation is to resurrect techs that are no longer on the market. (As with ZX Spectrum, C64, NES, etc) DialTone admitted that he wouldn't have released JPeMu if he had know the trouble it would have caused. As for new technology to emulated, what about older unemulated technology - early 90s stuff like Fairground and Hagar, as well as all the 80s stuff.

I agree - ban under 16s (they can play the lottery and buy scratchcards - another gamble) from arcades, irrespective of stake.
Fairplay doesn't support random machines but nor does it listen to valid counter-arguments aimed at gearing them up for their "battle" with the fruit machine companies.

As for the companies letting people have access to their roms and such like, would you be happy to give parts of your product away? There are always ways of getting stuff (classified ads, ebay, etc) and always will be.

[duplu]

I for one could not care less about MPU5 and Scorpion 4 until MPS2 and SYSTEM 80 are emulated.

Modern machines are boring

I couldn't agree more. A good thing though as it stopped me playing them anymore.

[jaybee]

It is a bit mean when you are on one step from a jackpot and there's always an 11 on the reel and in spins a 12.
It wouldn't be so heart breaking if you were on an 8 would it!
But at the end of the day it's a gamble, your not forced to press that button.

[RB]

The fruitys greatest friend....Greed...

How many times have we all said..last £1, and then on the last roll, in pops 2 JP symbols....just another quid incase it holds..

Fruit machine companys pander to it...
site agents develop on it....
Arcades love it...

All the sounds..lights...attract modes....tv / movie tie ins...all designed for one thing..sucker you in......and drain your pocket....instead of walking away £5 or £10 up....everyone wants the jackpot....and will gladly spend £100......to win the £25 JP

Everyone loves to think they are a pro player and can beat the machine...and some can ...but they are in the minority...but a real pro player knows when to walk away...even if the 2 JPs drop in...

coz he knows "it aint gunna hold".....and that 11 is "gunna go 12"

[handsome_rob]

The fruitys greatest friend....Greed...

How many times have we all said..last £1, and then on the last roll, in pops 2 JP symbols....just another quid incase it holds..

Fruit machine companys pander to it...

not anymore they dont....

player baiting and pots are now illegal

[ziggy]

Pots are now illegal ? Are you refering to " streaks " ? If so since when did they become illegal ?

There will he a hellova lot of coding going on overnight if it is ! :)

[Irvster]

I don't know where this thread is going but i for one wouldn't like a completely random machine....at least you know when a machine is on rip so you can leave it alone very quickly....if it was random you could still only get one jackpot every 10000 spins...i am sure the manafactures would be certain of that!!!!!

Has anyone evr seen a reel with 100 symbools on it but only 1 Jackpot symbol?....frightening thought innit?

Irvster '04'

[f00n]

I've got to disagree.
The whole ethos behind emulation is to resurrect techs that are no longer on the market.

Absolutely true. MPU5 has been around longer than the "3 year" emultion embargo imposed by the scene and appreciated by the manufacturers. I would think it fair we can now have access to this technology after all there are still MPU4 machines in the arcades.

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Random machines are not particularly a bad thing. The only limitation on the kind of games you play are how the mathematicians who create the US casino games devise their games. In the UK we have a completely different way of thinking about our fruit machines yet more and more of us are turning to games like Party Time Arena, Golden Game, Casino Crazy Fruits, Wheel of Fortune and that skanky game with the King Kong rip off climbing the prize ladder.
Lo-Techs are the new way to rip people off legitimately and the regular style AWP's are being aimed towards the under-18 market. You cannot disagree with this just because your not under-18 anymore and that leaves the responsible action of protecting our children.

I get the impression that most people who have an opinion on random games have studied or been aware of the casino games available. If so then you would know that the games are quite good and getting better all the time. Selling gaming ideas to casinos is big money.
The UK uses the US scene as influence in it's development but is not limited by the enforced rules. We have the chance to create a fair system from scratch. I don't propose we should simply remove every enjoyable game we have in our (skanky) arcades but make a stand to say we don't want to be ripped off anymore. No-win gambles are illegal whether or not they involve a Hi-Lo reel. It should NOT be called a gamble.

Lets just sack off the whole fairplay idea and whack big panels on the side of fruit machines that say "Reverse Cash Machine - Simply insert your credit card here and we will take a random lump sum off you. Then you can go about your daily business without wasting a few hours on this machine". Make that sign all flashy and sparkly to "attract" us and all will be well.

*sigh*
:roll:

[Zoltar]

I suppose they could always remove the HI-LO gamble altogether. What you win cannot be bettered. Land on the £2.40, thats what you bank. As for playing a feature game, a randomly operated reel for your moves could be a good idea. To compensate though, you'd have many more '?' spaces on the board to even the machines chances of not being wiped out.

A JPM machine from the 80's called 'Plus Money' had a gamble that could go up or down. For example, you won a £1. The next two prizes (£1.50 and £2.00) and the previous two prizes (80p and 60p) would all be flashing seperately and in different orders. Not sure if it was random though. You hit the gamble button and you'd land on either 60p, 80p £1.50 or £2. This method would give a true 50/50 win/lose gamble if it was random. Theres still a chance of the JP being won every time but thats the same odds of losing every time too. More prize increments would mean more gamble attemps to land the JP if all gambles were won. A lose at any point, taking your win down by 1 or 2 increments (60p or 80p in this example) would allow 1 more life. A second lose would result in the prize you landed on when losing, being added to the bank. Of all the gamble methods I've ever seen on a machine, this was the only one that really did give me the feeling I had as much chance of winning as I had of losing. Gambles of today heighten your feelings of success by giving you safer numbers, making you more inclined to make the gamble in the first place then time after time, in front of your face, they basically rubbish all logic and work against your instinct by killing you on that safe number.

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[Zoltar]

Heres a picture of 'Plus Money' for those who remember the gambling structure I described.

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[ziggy]

That description for that gabmle just reminded me of the gamble on the original cops & robbers/Cat and mouse bfm.Get any win and you could make the machine offer you the chance of the jackpot on any gamble.
E.g. get a 20p win and then press a button that would after the prize value of the next gamble.

Those who have played this will know what im on about,i know it's not the clearest description.

Any pics of this machine CC ??

[jaybee]

May by I'm dreaming of this but I'm sure there was a maygay machine or an Ace machine that has a high low reel but it would spin and it was blacked out. You only found out what number it was after the gamble when it was lit.
I also remember jpms fairground had a real dice in the gamble reel, but i think there was six dice glued on to it!

[Zoltar]

May by I'm dreaming of this but I'm sure there was a maygay machine or an Ace machine that has a high low reel but it would spin and it was blacked out. You only found out what number it was after the gamble when it was lit.
I also remember jpms fairground had a real dice in the gamble reel, but i think there was six dice glued on to it!

According to a thread on FruitFORUMS, Alex wrotethat the ACE machine was emptiable due to a certain type of light being directed at the cover that hid the pre-determined HI-LO result, giving the player the result before pressing the correct gamble.

Is this the Fairground machine you are describing?

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[Irvster]

That fairground machine is a bloody good machine but i dont think the dice were glued in the slots, just very heavily weighted so of course it is identical to havin a numbered reel but looks like its a random roll!!!!

The best dice gamble i have ever seen was the one on the only fools and horses machine which looked like it was suspended in mid air....how the hell did that work...?

Irvster '04'