138 replies to this topic

[niallquinn]

I've sort of been away for the last few days and have had approximately 30 minutes to try and read as much as I can about what has gone on.

I have to say that I've always been confused as to why there isn't some sort of system in place for the sites self preservation. I've mentioned before about wether it would be a possibility to say 'throttle' peoples downloading to avoid the leeching that goes on. Whilst this is only one case I mentioned, it does still leave layouts free to all members but if you want more, then you will have to contribute to the costs of any bandwidth used. This idea was logically dismissed at the time it was mentioned but maybe something that should be considered.

Heading towards the more heated dialogue, I don't understand why Duplu feels the need to throw in the towel. This place has become pretty much the centre of FME and lets be honest, other sites have tried and never really got the blend to pull in so many members. FF has changed over the years. Some say due to how FME has gone. But this place is still here and is doing as well as ever. Surely a testament to Duplu and the team that run this place.

My personal opinions on things like VIP areas, well, I'm no fan of restricting stuff. And If i was here yesterday and the day before, I'd have been spouting my arguments but it looks like I've popped in as things are being cleared up. Thats why I thought a restriction to none contributing members by having a limited file number so only 2 or 3 layouts can be downloaded, or maybe a simple 10mb per day limit. This is what similar sites do to avoid the leeching.

As for Mr. T. Ironically, keeping his head down and saying nothing would probably have served him better in all this. As maybe the victim. But the long winded 'tannoy of righteousness' speech made me really cringe. Any higher ground pretty much collapsed when that post was made. Whilst in no way making a dig, I find one thing confusing. For someone who can't be arsed with the scene anymore, as I read in another post somewhere, why would you continue to make layouts? OK, you made them for yourself. That would be a fair and just answer. Likewise, you decide to release these layouts and your chosen method of passing them out could be seen as an honourable gesture. But to come out with that post is quite devastating. Insulting to the intelligence to be fair. Yes, you're probably damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. You didn't even post constructively. Just a hate filled barrage of insults to the members who simply use this site as it is set up to be. You put stuff out, people will take it.

Summing up, I feel this is another disastrous episode that handled the correct way, could have been very promising indeed. But instead, we have the hand grenade of self pity and the land mine of personal reward going off, and the owner of those 2 devices throwing a strop and kicking in the walls because his bombs went off in a barren field.

Good post CC.

As for the VIP part, I'm neither pro nor anti. But, if you're going to have a VIP section to aid financing the site, just make sure that the "goodies" you give out as a way of thanks haven't been released or leaked elsewhere. Well that's what I would do. Use it as a sort of WIP, for the VIP members to post feedback and help the creators before it's released to the normal users.

As for the site continuing or not, it wouldn't make any difference to me. Layouts, emulators, resources have always been spread via direct links, usenet, irc dcc, irc fserves, BBS, torrents, email, post (cd/dvd), hidden forums and normal forums in the past, like they were for the 3 years before this site was created, and will continue to do if it were to cease.

That's my 20p Eurocoin tokens worth.

[Matty.N]

I would also like to think that there are a hell of alot more members here that although may not contribute, do respect and appriciate all the effort that goes into making layouts and sourcing resources

there might be

but we dont see much of it

it takes less than 30 seconds to post a thank you on a release, yet hardly anyone does

[Nemmie]

I've sort of been away for the last few days and have had approximately 30 minutes to try and read as much as I can about what has gone on.

I have to say that I've always been confused as to why there isn't some sort of system in place for the sites self preservation. I've mentioned before about wether it would be a possibility to say 'throttle' peoples downloading to avoid the leeching that goes on. Whilst this is only one case I mentioned, it does still leave layouts free to all members but if you want more, then you will have to contribute to the costs of any bandwidth used. This idea was logically dismissed at the time it was mentioned but maybe something that should be considered.

Heading towards the more heated dialogue, I don't understand why Duplu feels the need to throw in the towel. This place has become pretty much the centre of FME and lets be honest, other sites have tried and never really got the blend to pull in so many members. FF has changed over the years. Some say due to how FME has gone. But this place is still here and is doing as well as ever. Surely a testament to Duplu and the team that run this place.

My personal opinions on things like VIP areas, well, I'm no fan of restricting stuff. And If i was here yesterday and the day before, I'd have been spouting my arguments but it looks like I've popped in as things are being cleared up. Thats why I thought a restriction to none contributing members by having a limited file number so only 2 or 3 layouts can be downloaded, or maybe a simple 10mb per day limit. This is what similar sites do to avoid the leeching.

As for Mr. T. Ironically, keeping his head down and saying nothing would probably have served him better in all this. As maybe the victim. But the long winded 'tannoy of righteousness' speech made me really cringe. Any higher ground pretty much collapsed when that post was made. Whilst in no way making a dig, I find one thing confusing. For someone who can't be arsed with the scene anymore, as I read in another post somewhere, why would you continue to make layouts? OK, you made them for yourself. That would be a fair and just answer. Likewise, you decide to release these layouts and your chosen method of passing them out could be seen as an honourable gesture. But to come out with that post is quite devastating. Insulting to the intelligence to be fair. Yes, you're probably damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. You didn't even post constructively. Just a hate filled barrage of insults to the members who simply use this site as it is set up to be. You put stuff out, people will take it.

Summing up, I feel this is another disastrous episode that handled the correct way, could have been very promising indeed. But instead, we have the hand grenade of self pity and the land mine of personal reward going off, and the owner of those 2 devices throwing a strop and kicking in the walls because his bombs went off in a barren field.

As always very eloquent but I think you will find that Mr T remained silent whilst everyone continued to attack him for the last year. I think perhaps he thought naively that people would let the past live in the past but unfortunately this has proved impossible for some.

I take it your last paragraph refers also to Mr T but I do not see any self pity in his post or any personal reward in him once again getting attacked by the normal people in their normal spiteful manner. Even when he releases his layouts by proxy and in a manner that was aimed to help this forum and therefore the scene in general.

I find it quite comical that he has produced more layouts than the rest of the FME community combined in his absence. Perhaps if people put their minds to more constructive matters they could do the same.

[baz]

I find it quite comical that he has produced more layouts than the rest of the FME community combined in his absence. Perhaps if people put their minds to more constructive matters they could do the same.

How true

[Matty.N]

there might be

but we dont see much of it

it takes less than 30 seconds to post a thank you on a release, yet hardly anyone does

http://www.fruit-emu...er-1024-dx.html

that thread prooves my point

133 downloads and only 7 posts of thank yous

[letemspin]

As always very eloquent but I think you will find that Mr T remained silent whilst everyone continued to attack him for the last year. I think perhaps he thought naively that people would let the past live in the past but unfortunately this has proved impossible for some.

I take it your last paragraph refers also to Mr T but I do not see any self pity in his post or any personal reward in him once again getting attacked by the normal people in their normal spiteful manner. Even when he releases his layouts by proxy and in a manner that was aimed to help this forum and therefore the scene in general.

I find it quite comical that he has produced more layouts than the rest of the FME community combined in his absence. Perhaps if people put their minds to more constructive matters they could do the same.

To be fair though Nemmie and in the interests of balance here, I do think Compost is right to be critical of Andy, for I too was rather shocked and dismayed by his post. Whilst I doubt that this is going to cause him too many sleepless nights, nevertheless his justified moral high ground was rather transformed into a fetid swamp.

Besides the unfortunate tone, it certainly did smack of 'look what I've got and you're not having'. And I suggest to you that we've all seen rather too much of that already...

No, concerning the whole TM/AT debacle, this unfortunate axis has been the enduring stain on FME almost since its inception and certainly for the last 5 years or more, in my judgement. It is a mystery to me; in the final analysis the two protagonists are both passionate about emulation of fruit machines and are, or have been very constructive contributors in all other respects. With such a great shared interest and passion, I would have thought this fertile common ground for the basis of a meaningful and lasting reconcilliation with no strings attached. Were this to be possible the situation for the entire FME movement would be immeasurably improved, and yet we are not talking about some great feat such as the emulation of an entire new tech or the comprehensive gathering of 30 year old resources, merely two blokes on the internet shaking virtual hands! It takes a much bigger man to do this of course, rather than to perpetuate the by now utterly meaningless hostilities. And it's not like anyone has died or anything.

Still, on a more positive note I am pleased to say that my own interest has been somewhat rekindled, not least by the rather awesome prospect of BFM Powerlines shortly seeing the light of day over at the Mecca. I'd long assumed this little beauty was lost to the sands of time forever, but now thanks to the efforts of others, we are all no doubt in for a right treat. Good eh.

Cavey

[£6 In Tokens]

http://www.fruit-emu...er-1024-dx.html

that thread prooves my point

133 downloads and only 7 posts of thank yous

That's perfectly normal eminemster....For the last few years anyway!!!

:devil:

[Johnnyafc]

That's perfectly normal eminemster....For the last few years anyway!!!

:devil:

Yeah check out all my releases

[niallquinn]

To be fair though Nemmie and in the interests of balance here, I do think Compost is right to be critical of Andy, for I too was rather shocked and dismayed by his post. Whilst I doubt that this is going to cause him too many sleepless nights, nevertheless his justified moral high ground was rather transformed into a fetid swamp.

Besides the unfortunate tone, it certainly did smack of 'look what I've got and you're not having'. And I suggest to you that we've all seen rather too much of that already...

No, concerning the whole TM/AT debacle, this unfortunate axis has been the enduring stain on FME almost since its inception and certainly for the last 5 years or more, in my judgement. It is a mystery to me; in the final analysis the two protagonists are both passionate about emulation of fruit machines and are, or have been very constructive contributors in all other respects. With such a great shared interest and passion, I would have thought this fertile common ground for the basis of a meaningful and lasting reconcilliation with no strings attached. Were this to be possible the situation for the entire FME movement would be immeasurably improved, and yet we are not talking about some great feat such as the emulation of an entire new tech or the comprehensive gathering of 30 year old resources, merely two blokes on the internet shaking virtual hands! It takes a much bigger man to do this of course, rather than to perpetuate the by now utterly meaningless hostilities. And it's not like anyone has died or anything.

Still, on a more positive note I am pleased to say that my own interest has been somewhat rekindled, not least by the rather awesome prospect of BFM Powerlines shortly seeing the light of day over at the Mecca. I'd long assumed this little beauty was lost to the sands of time forever, but now thanks to the efforts of others, we are all no doubt in for a right treat. Good eh.

Cavey

Cracking post Captain. Will be lost on 99.9% of the forum members, but a cracking post nonetheless!!!

[jamesb99_1999]

Thought Nemmie's post summed it up perfectly - there has been massive lots of digs at andy for over a year now and he has obviously been reading them without responding - he finally responds and defends himself yet the same few use that as their evidence he's the devil...

a few really sad people out there to be honest...

And in the spirit of a balanced argument let me say stan is an arsewipe.

[£6 In Tokens]

Yeah check out all my releases

Just did....Wasn't worth a thanks IMO

Actually Johnny had a good idea a while back....Make a layout, put errors in it....You'll be guaranteed to get at least 40 responses.

A good layout with no errors expect about 6 commments maximum.

:devil:

[jamesb99_1999]

Just did....Wasn't worth a thanks IMO

Actually Johnny had a good idea a while back....Make a layout, put errors in it....You'll be guaranteed to get at least 40 responses.

A good layout with no errors expect about 6 commments maximum.

:devil:

hehe - you aren't wrong there made look how many comments my hated simulations got - although the errors were down to bad programming rather than any plan - lmao

[RB]

Just did....Wasn't worth a thanks IMO

Actually Johnny had a good idea a while back....Make a layout, put errors in it....You'll be guaranteed to get at least 40 responses.

A good layout with no errors expect about 6 commments maximum.

:devil:

Works for me....

[yorkie07808]

Just did....Wasn't worth a thanks IMO

Actually Johnny had a good idea a while back....Make a layout, put errors in it....You'll be guaranteed to get at least 40 responses.

A good layout with no errors expect about 6 commments maximum.

:devil:

Only prob with that is as soon as you do complain someone starts calling you an ungratfull g*t.

[Matty.N]

That's perfectly normal eminemster....For the last few years anyway!!!

:devil:

Yeah check out all my releases

That may be so, but people should have to comment before downloading

but if i ever download a new release i always thank as you dont have to make them

but do for everyone

[letemspin]

Thought Nemmie's post summed it up perfectly - there has been massive lots of digs at andy for over a year now and he has obviously been reading them without responding - he finally responds and defends himself yet the same few use that as their evidence he's the devil...

a few really sad people out there to be honest...

And in the spirit of a balanced argument let me say stan is an arsewipe.

Besides DAD's brief reposte, I couldn't find any examples of 'people using his post as evidence that he's the devil', merely support from some quarters and rather considered, gentle criticism from others (Compost and myself included), not bad under the circumstances. In short then, I have no idea what you're talking about. [citation needed]

A deeply unhelpful post on your part frankly, if ever there was one. I must admit that I expected much greater things from you, given your previous record.

Edited by letemspin, 10 February 2009 - 04:25 PM.

[RB]

The Number 1 DX download managed 7 replies, 40,000 odd downloads....and it was a throwaway DX too.....Cest la vie...just no accounting for taste.

[Geddy]

Part one...

Hello and good evening.

Firstly and foremostly I shan't be posting here again and didn't intend to at all. so anyone who decides to quote, pull to bits, rub themselves over and whatever else over this post can do so. It won't get read because I don't care. I no longer care and haven't done for a long time.

Although you have replied and you will read it and you do care.... or you would not have posted in the first place.

Clarification - I no longer care for a bunch of greedy squeaky tight ****s who take take take and then claim poverty in return.

Language Timothy! Mmmm take take take and claim poverty. Now who was the master of that then? Ciggies/Cash for layouts ring any bells. Stop being so hypocritical.

It has nothing to do with stupid fat people. But more to do with the fact I am too busy to go on providing people with everything for free.

Is that a unprovked attack? Also why the hell should you be any different? All other layout providers provide for free. You are the only one EVER who has EVER tried to gain financially from layouts.

To anyone who has complained about the V.I.P area of this site let me explain something to you.

Alan (aka Duplu) puts this site on basically totally free of charge. He hasn't forced anyone to pay for it, and to that ends noone really has. A few people have piped up donations but nowhere near enough.

Totally free of charge but has accepted donations and sponsorship???? Sorry make you bloody mind up will you.

To that ends people who are crying poverty and complaining over paying a tenner? you make me f*****g laugh. how can you afford a P.C and an internet connection? The only reason you are complaining is because you can't have everything on this site for free. So STFU.

If Duplu wanted donations he would have asked for them aka the Mecca and Fruit Forums. I would love to know how much cash you have splashed on these forums. Although you are more into trying to make money from layouts than giving I forgot.

It's this shit that has caused me to feel the way that I do about fme. And why I f*****g point blank refuse to go on giving shit away for absolutely nothing anymore. Quite simply noone wants to share. Noone wants to help unless it helps with their gains.

Utter garbage... the only person not wanting to share is you. Look you say it above.

As for me hoarding resources?

Let me clarify a few things there too, for the people who really do sit there and dream all day.

First of all most of what Alan has is there, waiting for you to put together. Don't f*****g come it about you can't afford a tenner and then do LITTLE TO NOTHING ELSE. You could ask, people are here to help and you could make a layout or do something.

Second of all in the last year I have made and produced in my time using my knowledge more fruit machines than the entire cumalative scene has put together. That spans over about 5 forums and about 80,000 members.

The only difference is that this time I wasn't about to hand them out.

So you are admitting to hoarding stuff then, great but that was the whole point of the VIP disagreement - the hoarding, at least we know you are guilty.

It's no secret that Alan and I have and will remain to be friends. Or, the respect that I have for him for setting up this place. That will never change.

Thus, when we were talking the other night I suggested to him that he take my layouts and put them in the V.I.P area to attempt to try and take back a little of what he has given to this scene.

So it is 'Alan's' turn? First we had Alex, then Pete, then Tony then Alex agian then Pete etc etc etc.... Basically you class friends as whoever goes along with your ploys at that particular time.

FFS, people have been whining about him advertising for Union Jackpots (with other charging services coming soon, watch this space) yet theyre not prepared to tackle the issue at hand and what has caused that.

We have our theories regarding the UJ banner and IMO people are allowed to voice their concerns. Many see UJ as some sort of scam and did not want it associated with this site. As members, some 'paying' members they have that right to air their concerns. Did you line UJ up? You seem to know an awful lot abou what is planned for this site.... dare I say more than the staff do.

IE - You're tight selfish ****s, basically. If you f*****g paid your way and weren't so f*****g spoilt he wouldn't have to run the ads to pay for the costs of this place. Have you asked yourself that? Of course you haven't you're too f*****g selfish.

And that's why the scene is where it is today.

LANGUAGE!!! Sorry but the ONLY member I can EVER remember BEGGING for money in exchange for layouts was you. So who is the selfish one?

See that fat **** telling you all what you should think and feel? Don't even get me started.

His postings, his starting this fight and Duplu calling it a day are all his fault.

Oh that will be another unprovoked attack at me then. Well sorry but this is a forum and on forums you tend to make posts regarding you opinions and thoughts. The post was MY opinons and people are allowed to have their own, some have agreed and some have not. That's life. However me posting this has nothing to do with Duplu calling it a day. That decision was his and his alone. No where did he pin it on me so again you are way off the mark with your accusations.

Know why? because this has nothing to do with Duplu, nothing to do with these layouts, nothing to do with FME and nothing to do with the price of condoms.

hang on just above you said it was to do with Duplu.... make your mind up.

IT does however have everything to do with one stupid controlling obsessed **** hating my guts.

Paranoia strikes deep.... sad.

I'm absolutely disgusted at the complaints people have said here. About how they can't afford a tenner. If its genuinely that bad get the internet cut off. you don't f*****g need it then, do you?

Seriously, I can't truly believe how f*****g greedy and selfish people are within this scene.

Yeah I know what you mean..... I mean begging for cash and cigs to make layouts or trying to get $500 for resources you got for free..... HYPOCRITE!

Maybe me GIVING those layouts to Alan was a bad thing to do? Maybe I shouldn't have given them to anyone at all. Simply as no **** wants to wait for them or pay a donation to keep this site running. f*** the lot of you tbh, you're f*****g blessed to have even had the chance.

THB and thanks for admitting to hoarding again, if Alan had asked for donations then plenty would have been forthcoming. However he did not so stop whinging about it. However when Duplu basically offerend layouts for donations he made a bad judgement call. He cannot of ran it past the staff because I know what he would have been told to do.

As for what I'm hoarding? LMFAO. I'm not about to do a f***in Bullseye on your asses because I'd be here all night, but you've lost an awful lot to talking to people who do all the spadework like that.

Let me say something.

When I get in my car, and I drive to an arcade, and I take photos and come back and do a DX. You don't deserve f*** all.

Hang on are you admitting to haording again and doing the 'I coded JPEMU v3 - here is what you could have had' trick again? LMAO.

Every single DX Alan has now could have been done by any of you. You're either too lazy or too f*****g mean to do anything that might help the cause.

Even the ones with the hoarded roms?

Every single time a thread like this happens the cost of the next emulator gets more and more and more. Simply as less people help leaving the person coding it to foot the bill for things like data analyzers, logic analyzers, reverse engineering chips, buying a machine to take apart from each manu that used the tech etc etc etc etc.

And what do you get? every **** thinking it is their god given right to have it for free and then complain.

Sorry I forgot you were the most important person in this scene and without you we would have nothing, I'm sorry I even doubt your word... you are a true saviour of the scene God bless you...

[SIZE=6][SIZE=2]Duplu. I deeply apologise for coming up with an idea that helps your site stay online and stay #1 in the world of fme. You have my number mate. If you want or need anything else then call. We'll just keep it away from this bunch of ungrateful #@#@#@#s.

Peace

Watch out t u tton.exe worm about.... get your AV up to scratch. I've seen those comments all to many times.

[Geddy]

Personally you had no business bringing into question what Duplu does with the site at all.

WRONG! What about the people who financially contribute to the site? Should they not be afforded some say?

The fact remains that money talks and bullshit walks. 103,000 downloads of the emulator, ONE EMULATOR. right below that, 42,000 downloads of noels house party.

That all costs Duplu money. In a convo tonight he confessed that he had done over ten grand into this place since it was concieved.

£10k? Well if that is the case how much has he got back in donations and adverts etc? I'm sorry to plough approx £1,700 a year into something at a loss is either amazing silly or totally niave. Again if he had asked for donations he would have got them.

The union ad is probably the best ad that could have possibly been put here. Simply as it fits with the theme. If gambling is so bad, so evil and so terrible why are you playing fruit machine emulators?

Why does a heroin addict take perscprition heroin instead of the real thing? What a stupid analogy you make here. Hang on a site that encourages gambling is associated with a site that goes against it. Can you now see how stupid the alliance is?

Honestly, you really have no idea what goes into a place like this in the way of running costs. What does FF cost a month? about 40 quid? OK, now times the throughput and bandwidth by a hundred, then multiply the hosting done here (that isnt done at FF) and the flyers and god knows what else and give me a rough estimation of what this site costs to run?

Of course you know because you are up Duplu's arse sniffing about for your own ends.

See, in that one moment of clarity you will realise how pointless assholes like Stanmarsh are. Noone needs to discuss anything with 'their staff' the host of this site doesnt need to give any rhyme or reason for a god damned thing he does. That's his business.

What is the point of having a staff then? What about the paying contributors?

However, after a chat with him tonight I think you'll find that sometime in the very near future you won't have much of a say in the matter.

Oooooo you tease.... you always like to know the gen first....

Of all the things you have taken for free here you could never even begin to imagine what all that giving has cost the host. If you could you would be a gold member.

Are you a gold member? How much have you gave (before this out burst) to this site?

Sorry, but if everyone gave a quid even for the emulator they have downloaded (one of, like) then we would have 103 GRAND. In the fme kitty.

How much have you gave?

That means we could have bought nearly every used fruit machine in existance AND paid someone a good wage to give up their day job and code red, heber, sru and anything else.

If you had not leaked and stole emulators then we would have had a person making these techs

Keep watching.

Oooo the suspense, we were all wondering what 2009's scam was.... oooo pray tell we will give you attention and bow to your every whim. Come on a hint.... what is it? EPEE if we give £20 each... what what what???

Not being funny but I expected this when I realised who the layout creator was - I knew trouty would start an attack. It's marbles in the playground part 2 I'm afraid.

Attack? Where? Funny I knew when I made this post that the usually AT2 would plough in and have a dig..... shit the bed I was right... hehe.

This whole Union jackpots thing is absolute bollocks too - a site advertiser helps keep the site you love running - I can imagine you would rather see it close but I wouldn't... You didn't complain about cyberlots you few are a bunch of two faced bastards if I am honest.

Was cyberslots a blatant scam that UJ appears to be? Did they spam like UJ did?

Who cares?

If someone does not want to release any DX's as soon as they have finished them its down to them is it not?

Sorry you ballsed up your point there. I was stated to that Tu t t on was not involved by another member but I was correcting them by stating they were his layouts..... get my point?

Is there a law that says a finished DX must be released as soon as its finished?

Not at all but there is a general frowning upon hoarding of resources which is apparent here. Duplu claims in his quit thread his last act is to release SOME of the layouts... so I guess the rest are to be hoarded... fine.

I think the point is that the model that Fruit Emu is running with at the moment involves the site owner putting his hands in his pocket in order for people to leech stuff for free.

Oh hi did not expect you back at 'Kiddyland.' Like previously mentioned if Duplu asked for donations then he would have got them, it is no ones fault he did not ask.

I think he was trying to encourage donations so that more people would contribute and allow the site to continue. On reflection this seems quite reasonable as the leechers would still be able to get the layout at a later date. Surely this is preferable to having no site at all?

Regardless of his intentions and I agree with you his motives I just think he made a poor judgement call. Once you mix layouts with money you cause issues. Is selling them on ebay any different in essence? Again all he had to do was ask for donations then the usual crowd would have helped him out. We have never heard that the site was in difficulties.

If you all love this site so much then you should contribute towards the running of it. I love FF and along with others make the necessary contributions to make sure it stays in existence. It would only take a few quid from those that can afford it to ensure the future of Fruit Emu and yet not many seem willing to even take this small step to help.

Agreed but then you cannot force anyone to do that, they are not conditions of membership so really a mute point.

Good post CC.
As for the VIP part, I'm neither pro nor anti. But, if you're going to have a VIP section to aid financing the site, just make sure that the "goodies" you give out as a way of thanks haven't been released or leaked elsewhere. Well that's what I would do. Use it as a sort of WIP, for the VIP members to post feedback and help the creators before it's released to the normal users.

A valid point. Unfortunately under the counter behaviour has been rife for years in FME and I would imagine it is impossible to stop.

Edited by Geddy, 10 February 2009 - 04:25 PM.

[Geddy]

Thought Nemmie's post summed it up perfectly - there has been massive lots of digs at andy for over a year now and he has obviously been reading them without responding

MASSIVE? Do we have any evidence or are these more unsubstantiated claims?

Also he has been too busy making hoarded layouts to reply hehe

And in the spirit of a balanced argument let me say stan is an arsewipe.

Can't argue with that likes...

Edited by Geddy, 10 February 2009 - 04:26 PM.