14 replies to this topic

[Irvster]

I think i read somewhere that a (normal arcade/pub) machines percentage is calculated over a sample of 10,000 spins (credits) i make this £3000 worth of credits .If this is true then surely there would be nothing to stop a machine taking say £2900 without even a £1 win and then spitting out a jackpot every £1 for the next £100....could this happen or is it just VERY wishful thinking???

Irvster '04'

[Sandoran]

Well I don't know exactly to be honest, but i've noticed after a while playing emulated fruities I always end up at the percentage of the machine.

So go in the MFME and play a fruitie until you notice you're at the machine's percentage and count how many spins it takes

I don't think it'd be counted on spins though, I think they're a bit more intelligent than that...I would think they probably dip and peak to fool us into playing and even when they go on a bit of a streak they always end up back at their proper %.

[Gablaholic]

It would be interesting to deliberately refuse all wins for 9,900 spins on, say, Red Alert, and see what the machine did in the last 100 spins, whether it actually made percentage in the end. I know some JPMs just repeatedly spin in a Jackpot when the percentage dips too low, but AFAIK Red Alert does not... Might try that soon, but too busy downloading Far Cry and UT2004 (DVD versions) at the moment

[Zoltar]

A machine would still be within it's percentages and governed limits if it paid out as suggested in the first post. Machine coding does stop this happening by throwing in jackpots at certain intervals. I think Red Arrow throws in the 3 red 7's for £15 but gives you a chance of gambling for the Red Hot Streak.

On the emulator, if you deliberately lose the gamble, the jackpot spins in again straight away on you're next spin. I've had Red Arrow throw in 23 consecutive 3 x Red 7 jackpots and deliberately lost the gamble on all those events. Eventually, the machine gave me a 1 when I went lower than a 2 for the streak. Then it went for about £45. So when it needs to, the machine will throw a jackpot unexpectedly and will keep throwing it until taken or gambled successfully. I wouldn't know of course if this works on the real machine as I'd not be stupid enough to refuse a JP when real money is involved.

I hope this saves you the trouble and time of trying it out on the emulator.

Compost

[impact]

workin the cash in and out give u the percentage is 77.9% for exam 78% or u could probley look at the vtp the value to play how many on average 1000 = the jackpot drops i think its like this many be i have not the right answer for this but thats me

[Gablaholic]

A machine would still be within it's percentages and governed limits if it paid out as suggested in the first post. Machine coding does stop this happening by throwing in jackpots at certain intervals. I think Red Arrow throws in the 3 red 7's for £15 but gives you a chance of gambling for the Red Hot Streak.

On the emulator, if you deliberately lose the gamble, the jackpot spins in again straight away on you're next spin. I've had Red Arrow throw in 23 consecutive 3 x Red 7 jackpots and deliberately lost the gamble on all those events. Eventually, the machine gave me a 1 when I went lower than a 2 for the streak. Then it went for about £45. So when it needs to, the machine will throw a jackpot unexpectedly and will keep throwing it until taken or gambled successfully. I wouldn't know of course if this works on the real machine as I'd not be stupid enough to refuse a JP when real money is involved.

I hope this saves you the trouble and time of trying it out on the emulator.

Compost

I was going to try it on Red Alert tho, which doesn't spin in jackpots.

Was also interested to see if any sort of alert or alarm went off if the machine went drastically (i.e. 100%) under target.

[RB]

The actual percentage is worked out over 10,000 spins of the reels.
But as to what point in the 10,000 spins it will try to meet its percentage is unknown.....

[nails]

10,000 spins

bar-x however are a classic.. these 10,000 or so spins are split into `banks` so bank1 plays 72% bank2 plays 78%
and bank3 pays 98% etc etc. thats how grannies can sit there all day and get a different setup/game stlye without realising it.

[RoadRunner]

I played a magic 7's machine right, i stupidly missed a jackpot.
The machine took about £150 only giving me 1 XXX win for £10 after missing the jp. So this machine must now be running well under payout %?? So im confused how a machine can do this if its supposed to be maintaining a sort of regular payout %age

[nails]

ive had a magic 7`s do a 150 run before, it was a combination of jackpots, hold after wins and xxx that held also, either 145 or 150.

[RoadRunner]

yeh ive had the same sort of thing, the 3 777's run for £75 followed by a couple of 3 bar runs for £60 plus the odd random xxx win here and there, its annoying coz a machine, especially lo-techs take and take for ages then payout all at on time instead of spreading wins evenly. Its very frustrating and unfair.

[Bencrest]

So im confused how a machine can do this if its supposed to be maintaining a sort of regular payout %age

My Spiker took £85 off me one night, and then didn't seem to offer anything reasonable for say the next £100 afterwards, but checking out the Long Term %age in VTP mode it actually did make its way back up. The %age is not worked out over any number of spins, it is worked out over as many spins as the machine has until RAM Reset, e.t.c.

Raises 2 interesting points which I have considered tonight....

a) Consider that the machine has had about £10000 in [not a great deal IMHO, my Spiker was claiming to have had over £100000 through it!], then the percentage is only going to deviate from the set %age, say 78% slightly even if you lose £60. The machine could pay out nothing, and be at say 77.8%, pay out evens and be at say 78%, or pay out a streak and be at 78.2%. None of these are too far from the 'target' %age. Then say £1000000 went in. The machine is at 78% exactly - you could lose say £1000 and the %age would not change - or would it, my maths is terrible at night!

Machines also have this Streak Pot theory, in that every £500 [approx] it pays out a streak built up over the past £500 of credits, much like a club machine 'cashpot'. Hence the machine can and will play like crap no matter what percentage it on the cabinet or the machine is set to as it has to achieve this streak.

Hope that makes some degree of sense, it doesn't to me but might to someone out there!

BarcrestBenito

[Sandoran]

I'm with you BB (I think.) they are indeed interesting points. A percentage of thousands is nothing to the machine but to us "put £20 in to see if its playing" people it's a great deal!

If you slotted a quick £20 (and these days it's DAMN quick) you'd expect a return, hoever samll. But if percentage is worked out overall on what's been through the machine and not what's in it at the time (Or at least not as much as I would personally expect) then the possibilities for losing are immense and the machine is still playing to its percentage.

Ouch.

[Gablaholic]

10,000 spins

bar-x however are a classic.. these 10,000 or so spins are split into `banks` so bank1 plays 72% bank2 plays 78%
and bank3 pays 98% etc etc. thats how grannies can sit there all day and get a different setup/game stlye without realising it.

Please explain further. How do you KNOW they do this ?

Cheers

[Klingelton]

dont club machines have different cashpots? these would be different bars, i know mine has a cashpot, reserve and the normal shit, or am i being stupid? probably me...