23 replies to this topic

[mjj]

I'm referring to the latest, so called, release of Roller Coaster, I can recognise my artwork instantly, even if it has been stretched and distorted to produce a very crude layout, I'm not going to spend untold hours creating graphics, for someone to come along and rip them off, ruin them, add some hideous side art and call them their design.

Warnez, if you want to create a layout, then create one yourself, from your own artwork, don't steal other people's.

Thank you.

[flyer]

m8 if you say this is your artwork and he did not ask you if he could use it then yes i make you right you need to speak to dulpu or wozza about it.but also to look at it another way this is his first release so he might not of know to ask u if he could use it.i am not sticking up for him in anyway but give him a chance to say he's piece.

[mjj]

A bit of history, Roller Coaster, although credited to the name Fruitassasin is actually a joint collaboration, Andy drew the cabinet and made the actual DX and I created the glass artwork, from scratch, not from a flyer, but totally redrawn, as all my work is, it took around two weeks to do, the relevant release thread can be found at Poundrun here:

http://www.poundrun....p?showtopic=643

What is annoying here is that warnez says he used the buttons from the original, no mention of the glass graphics at all, hardly very honest is it?

I don't want to see work that I spent weeks on being lifted from the original layout, resized upwards, which never works, some sideart adding and being called someone elses design, that's not too much to ask is it?

[flyer]

like i said i am not taking no ones side and yes i know how bad the pics was for roller coaster as i am part of team F F S and we have just done rollercoaster club and that had to have a redraw as well.i know you and pandy are good at what you do and yes i know it does piss u off when thay dont ask you.i know coz i had it all when i first started doing the layouts.at least he could do is to thank you and pandy for the machine ok he might of just resized it and added a bit of art to it but it all does take time.lets see if he replys to this and gives you an answer and thank you and pandy.but as i did say he his new and when you first start you have not got no idea of who to thank.i did have a run in with Fruitassasin (pandy) lol.i did not know that he has had more name than i have had hot dinners.him and rb had me going for a little while as there was something i need from his eachway nudger mk III.i did not know that so much time goes into these machines and thay was just done from a pic and resize.but with the help of everybody at the fruit-emu and poundrun and ff i started to learn.

[duplu]

The layout has been removed pending review.

[buzzin_nutta]

Why do that in the first place?

It's hardly "fulfilling" knowing you just modified someone else's work...

[Bencrest]

..but as least it isnt as bad as 'mjvajs' Cops N Robbers classic

BarcrestBenito

[WARNEZ]

I am Glad to see everybody is quick to condemn me and lay in the boot. Well I think its about time I had my say.

I am a complete Newbie to the FME scene and congratulate all those who have provided the great releases that make this site (and others) what they are.

I wanted to give something back so thought I would try my hand at it.

I will start by saying that I used the background art from the WDX release currently on Fruit-EMU. I resized it and made a few alterations of my own to make it more presentable.

With that said I didn’t release that I had to ask permission first before I use someone’s artwork, in the same way I don’t expect you to ask JPM if it is OK to use their artwork.

I take on board what has been said and will make sure if I use anyone’s artwork/buttons in the future (highly unlikely) I will ask their express permission first.

All overlays were my own used coping and pasting bits to and from Photoshop and adding them to the resized layout. You will see that some of the lighting is different. If you look at the ‘trail held’, ‘lose’ and ‘question mark' features’ they are all different (text, colors, fonts and lighting).

For me this was a learning kerb to see how it all works.

Thanks for the kind words used about my ‘hideous side art’, comments like that are so constructive.

What am I guilty of here?

1) Not understanding the rules
2) Deciding to have a go at a layout
3) Designing some hideous side art.

I apologise to all people who were involved in the other version of Roller Coaster hosted on this site. I wasn’t my intention to offend you.

Well I am sure all of you started somewhere and would like to finish by saying “A newbie” is just that somebody starting out, we all have to start somewhere.

[Zoltar]

It's always a good idea to learn how to walk before zooming off at a speed.

All genuine and worthwhile layouts are created by people who do all the groundwork. For me, thats having a look through the resources available, checking my photo's and then having a look at whats already available as layouts to see if it's worth making a new one. At this stage, when running a layout that you are thinking of updating, theres usually some signage indicating it's author/creator. If not, a simple post across the forums asking who made the origional layout should unearth some information. Once found, it's always wise to just check with the origional author/creator if it's OK to have a bash at making a layout. Theres a fair few older layouts that could do with a little updating due to the accepted standards when origionally created so theres plenty to do.

Theres a great deal of layout creating coming from the younger guys here at Fruit-EMU and personally, I think it's great. What you have to remember though is that some layouts are drawn completely by hand. Others have large components drawn by hand. In short, hours and hours, days and days, sometimes even weeks and months are spent by dedicated creators who strive to present to us the best of their ability.

Think about Mikes point of view for a second. He's totally right in his actions. Would Leonardo DaVinci remain quite if a Mr. John Smith hacked up his original Mona Lisa and claimed it was HIS work?

Personally speaking, as far as layouts go, I think there should only be 3 types. The first being a simple classic. The second and third being the 1024DX and the 1280DX. If these exist, then they should be left alone unless the quality of the layout has somewhat declined with time compared to todays standards or a Pseudo DX creates an alternative style of layout that compliments the already released layouts.

Hacking an existing layout for short term personal gain isn't going to help anyone gain respect when creating layouts.

Compost

Once resources are aquired

[WARNEZ]

I take on board what had been said by all.

This may interest everyone, something I found whilst on ebay:

Follow the link:

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...&category=11048


WARNEZ

[Zoltar]

I will start by saying that I used the background art from the WDX release currently on Fruit-EMU. I resized it and made a few alterations of my own to make it more presentable.

The existing layout was as presentable as a layout could have been. How it could have been improved upon is beyond me.

With that said I didn’t release that I had to ask permission first before I use someone’s artwork, in the same way I don’t expect you to ask JPM if it is OK to use their artwork.

Thats a fair comment but it isn't a really fair comparison. We supposedly steal from JPM. Why didn't you? With all due respect, a little groundwork to find out about existing layouts and what was involved in creating them, finding creators names and possibly asking for the original layout creators blessing isn't so difficult to do. People spend days and days creating layouts. Surely you can see that it's a little unfair for one person to do the groundwork, aquiring the art, prepping the art, creating the lamps, and creating the layout just for a second person to just grab that time and effort, spend 10 minutes resizing it and releasing it as his own.

I take on board what has been said and will make sure if I use anyone’s artwork/buttons in the future (highly unlikely) I will ask their express permission first.

It's more to do with being courteous rather than asking for explicit permission. Understand Mikes point of view. It was exclusively his artwork. ENTIRELY.

‘lose’[/b] and ‘question mark' features’ they are all different (text, colors, fonts and lighting).

For me this was a learning kerb to see how it all works.

Thanks for the kind words used about my ‘hideous side art’, comments like that are so constructive.

What am I guilty of here?

1) Not understanding the rules
2) Deciding to have a go at a layout
3) Designing some hideous side art.

I apologise to all people who were involved in the other version of Roller Coaster hosted on this site. I wasn’t my intention to offend you.

Well I am sure all of you started somewhere and would like to finish by saying “A newbie” is just that somebody starting out, we all have to start somewhere.

Myself and I'm sure Mike and anyone else involved in layout creating for that matter have no problem at all with others having a go at layout creating. Me personally, I love seeing the emerging talents coming forward. Just a few months ago, I myself was a newby layout designer. It's so easy though to cut out all the hard work involved in layout creating and take the short cut way just to get a layout onto the scene. I'll tell you something. You get one hell of a buzz if you create something completely from scratch. Entirely your own work. I couldn't take credit for resizing an existing layout and stamping my name on it.

I hope this helps as it's not meant to come across in a nasty way. Simply trying to be constructive here.

Compost

[Zoltar]

The link to eBay you posted shows something that happens on a regular basis unfortunately. This type of behaviour is totally condemed by the entire scene. All components provided by the scene, emulators, layouts, resources are provided on a 'free to use' basis with a few simple requests added by the emulator authors about proper and improper useage.

Genuine members of the scene don't make a penny from any of the creations posted as this is all about participating in a hobby where we all benefit and in most cases, contribute to create a better hobby for us all.

The seller on ebay is actually selling wares that hold no monetary value as all his wares are free to obtain. Unfortunately, his buyers don't know this.

[mjj]

Hi Warnez,

Whilst I can understand when you say that you are new to the scene, and didn't know the status quo as to using existing layouts as a base for new ones, heck, everyone starts somewhere, and finding a layout that hasn't already been done is virtually impossible nowadays, what annoyed me more than anything was the fact that you said you'd used the buttons from the existing layout, with no mention of the actual glass artwork, which, you'll have to admit is the important bit.

The question you have to ask yourself though is whether there is any point in doing a layout like this? 1280 layouts came into fashion because people with larger monitors wanted higher quality layouts, to take an existing 1024 layout and resize it upwards achieves nothing at all, the graphics become course and pixelated.

The layout doesn't benefit 1280 users because all they need to do is set their monitor resolution to 1024 anyway to play the existing one full screen. The only justification for 1280 releases is if they are drawn for that size in the first place.

I stand by what I said about hideous sideart, each to their own, but (as I've said elsewhere), plastering logo's of emulation sites and huge text and signatures all over the dead space does nothing for a layout, it just makes them look very tacky.

At the end of the day though, no-one (well most people) stays angry for long, I certainly don't, do another layout, if you're looking for artwork, whether it's photo's, flyers or whatever, take a look in the repository, there are hundreds to choose from, ask yourself if you can improve on any existing layouts, which you'll find is not easy nowadays, but if you think you can, then give it a go.

[WARNEZ]

Where is the repository?

[fruitymad2003]

Where is the repository?

http://resources.fruitemu.co.uk/

Hope this helps

[eyleyro]

Aren't there any sticky threads or guidance notes on the protocols of creating layouts?

Instead of castigating WARNEZ for having a shot, why not consider that the guidance for future layout designers (surely the future of fme) is thin in the ground and probably inadequate!?

(and that is not a criticism of this site btw, but the scene, as a resource it does a massive and largely thankless job)

Fairplay to flyer for going against the torrent of abuse to suggest a less insidious possibility, that WARNEZ just may not know. (conversely if you knew and took a chance WARNEZ you're a scumbag)

I entirely see mjj's reluctance to have weeks of work, nicked and not credited. But to suggest that a layout could not be improved upon so why bother? Well surely that's merely a point of view. Chances are anything mike produces will not be bettered for years, if ever, but why chastise someone for even trying?

Personally speaking, and no offence intended to anyone, but do we really need 17 line-up layouts etc? Do you see where I'm going with this...?

WARNEZ, you know the score now (ish) - welcome. It's a strange scene to break into imho. There's an elite band that have been layouting since they were 5 and quite probably invented the scene, people who just want emptiers amd MPU5, and then people who just want to leech and never post.

Do it again and there'll be less of a defence, but I can't condem you for this one. The scene might not like to hear this but it's a touch cliquey. For every 5 mails/PMs I send to a hardcore member asking for help, I get one reply.

Use the chat room here, stick close to flyer (he seems to be a good egg, helped me do my first layout) and don't sweat the small stuff.

Rob.

[flyer]

i am willing to help u in anyway i can and i will say this for u.its great to see more and more people learning to make the machines.it was just a shame you went the wrong way about it.as i said in an early post we all need to start somewhere.so good job and dont let this put u off by anyway at all.hope to see another layout from u soon

[mjj]

"I entirely see mjj's reluctance to have weeks of work, nicked and not credited. But to suggest that a layout could not be improved upon so why bother? Well surely that's merely a point of view. Chances are anything mike produces will not be bettered for years, if ever, but why chastise someone for even trying"

Aah, no Rob, you misunderstand me, the point I'm trying to make is that you can't improve a 1024 layout by simply enlarging it in Photoshop, it just doesn't work, the only outcome is that the graphics deteriorate, so, as I say, why even attempt it, the layout could certainly be bettered, I'd be the first to admit it, it's coming up to a year old, and if I were to do the same layout again it would look very different. New techniques are discovered all the time, that's why Photoshop is well known for its notoriously steep learning curve, even to experts.

I hope that Warnez now goes and looks at all the available resources, he could even have a go at another Roller Coaster, I certainly wouldn't object, but as almost everyone agrees, it has to be one of the designers own creation.

[eyleyro]

Fair do's Mike, misread that part - soz.

Serious point though, is there enough info about to kick noobs off in the right direction? I for one don't have time to hang around chat, but could read a half decent doc/pdf on the train between meetings etc!?

If I thought I posessed half the knowledge needed I'f give it a shot myself

[flyer]

ok to help you guys get on the right ladder here is a chat i had with the one and only rb teaching me how to do a fruit machine in mfme.jpm works more and less in the same way.my thanks for this to rb and hope it help you as much as it help me

Attached Files

•  mfme.zip   1.88KB   20 downloads