64 replies to this topic

[handsome_rob]

...machines like Tomb Raider' date=' Wildthing or any other numerous machines have been released...[/quote']
Wild Thing? Mfr?

Yeah Wild Thing was released along with other 'new' machines and what has happened apart from Empire pulling their 'support' (which was not really pulled but rather suggested to be pulled) ........erm nowt ziltch nada eff all. Copyright is copyright if the machine is 2 days old or 20 years old it makes no difference legal wise.

Do you honestly think that empire, a small little company based in wales have the muscle of IGT or Gaussleman?

I suggest you read into this a little more, do some research and then rethink it, because how you can compare a company that makes rebuilds to IGT who, have offices and casinos all over the world is madness.

[Geddy]

Yeah Wild Thing was released along with other 'new' machines and what has happened apart from Empire pulling their 'support' (which was not really pulled but rather suggested to be pulled) ........erm nowt ziltch nada eff all. Copyright is copyright if the machine is 2 days old or 20 years old it makes no difference legal wise.

IIRC copyrights only last a given ammount of time.

Not that it's relevant here, but they do indeed expire after a certain ammount of time.

Try Patents

[handsome_rob]

Yeah Wild Thing was released along with other 'new' machines and what has happened apart from Empire pulling their 'support' (which was not really pulled but rather suggested to be pulled) ........erm nowt ziltch nada eff all. Copyright is copyright if the machine is 2 days old or 20 years old it makes no difference legal wise.

IIRC copyrights only last a given ammount of time.

Not that it's relevant here, but they do indeed expire after a certain ammount of time.

Try Patents

why? I havent mentioned patents and wasnt discussing them.

Oh i see DOH lol.

Thanks..knew it was something to do with something expiring

[Geddy]

...machines like Tomb Raider' date=' Wildthing or any other numerous machines have been released...[/quote']
Wild Thing? Mfr?

Yeah Wild Thing was released along with other 'new' machines and what has happened apart from Empire pulling their 'support' (which was not really pulled but rather suggested to be pulled) ........erm nowt ziltch nada eff all. Copyright is copyright if the machine is 2 days old or 20 years old it makes no difference legal wise.

Do you honestly think that empire, a small little company based in wales have the muscle of IGT or Gaussleman?

I suggest you read into this a little more, do some research and then rethink it, because how you can compare a company that makes rebuilds to IGT who, have offices and casinos all over the world is madness.

Did I say they did? I did not even mention the companies you are on about. However if you want company names chucking into the ring how about Sony? Oh and Sega own JPM so why have they not done anything yet?

If you were referring to IGT or Gaussleman because of you failed attempt with QPS to get them to endorse FME then why if you were so frightened did you released Pac-Man DX containing copyrighted material anyway????

It just does not make any sense what so ever.

[handsome_rob]

Did I say they did? I did not even mention the companies you are on about. However if you want company names chucking into the ring how about Sony? Oh and Sega own JPM so why have they not done anything yet?

Because Sega (jpm) are no longer making AWP's and so will not find any profit in them.

If you were referring to IGT or Gaussleman because of you failed attempt with QPS (Some know the real story btw) then why if you were so frightened did you released Pac-Man DX containing copyrighted material anyway????

It just does not make any sense what so ever.

I was referring to IGT and gaussleman because they are the 2 most prominent companies to pose a threat to FME.
Have you followed this thread? or did you just pick it up half way through and decide to unquit and start arguing?

The thread was about peer to peer networks, how they were the black sheep of the internet, and why F-E should not promote them here, at least that's the points I was talking about.

No, nothing has happened *yet* but if it ever does itll be too late, wont it?
So why tempt fate and push it hard? whats the point?

Fact is if f-e push too hard they could find themselves put into a position that would force them to close, they would probably avoid legal action but they would have to close, and what then?

As for Sony, look what happened to bleem, and VGS for mac.

Both taken to court and squeezed until they were bankrupt.

No, Sony had no moral legal grounds, but that doesnt matter when you're a large company like that, if you really want to throw about enough money you can quiet easily crush your opponent.

As for the line "some of us know what really happened etc" well it's nice to know one of us was on the other end of the phone listening to the conversation, maybe you should post a log of it?

I'm all ears.

BTW, nice U turn, I thought youd quit?

[handsome_rob]

whoops missed something.

The release of pacman was held off until it was 3 years old, like any other machine.

[fistandantilus]

seriously whats the point in having all the layouts in one file. I think too many people just horde rather than play. I think people will get more enjoyment if they just search through the lists and find a game to play, play that for a while until bored of it then maybe download another.

You can guarentee if a 1000 layouts were downloaded in one file at least 75% would never get played.

[Zoltar]

I mentioned an idea before where things could be arranged a little more fairly. Just like AJ's pinball layout site, have all people register to download and then limit them to just 5 zips a day. The emulators themselves don't count towards the daily download limit. Also, any new releases are free for all to download but say after 4 weeks, they become part of the 5 zips a day back catalogue. That way, no more hoarding of layouts. People will choose carefully what they want to download.

At the end of the day, those who are hell bent on gathering every layout in existence tie up the system for those who only want to download the latest releases.

Those who contribute to Fruit EMU by way of a small cash gift for support, could have their 5 zips a day limit lifted. I think it's totally unfair that thousands of people register to this site, download everything they can get their hands on then vanish when done until the new releases appear.

Rather than taking steps to wholesale distribute all our layouts, we should be curbing the leechers.

Compost

[ady]

maybe all the 0 posters should be wiped out.see how many members are left....

Why?..............The forums are a part of Fruit-Emu not the basis....

Then should we also 'wipe' the people who don't use the chat-rooms, upload layouts and the ones who only visit once a month!

Fruit-Forums for example is a forum dedicated site.........I only have, I think 3 posts there........But I regularly log on to see whats happening..Yet there are downloads avalible--I have never downloaded anything from FF so Using this stance i'd be barred from there!

[Geddy]

Free DVD service anyone?

[Geddy]

Because Sega (jpm) are no longer making AWP's and so will not find any profit in them.

What has that got to do with anything mentioned? Have you read this thread? They do still make fruit machines though I guess?

I was referring to IGT and gaussleman because they are the 2 most prominent companies to pose a threat to FME.
Have you followed this thread? or did you just pick it up half way through and decide to unquit and start arguing?

No you mentioned them ‘because’ you have had a phone call with them. And yes I have followed this thread and I think it was you who mentioned copyright threats first. I was addressing the points you made.

The thread was about peer to peer networks, how they were the black sheep of the internet, and why F-E should not promote them here, at least that's the points I was talking about.

Well actually you did say this – I found myself on speakerphone with some of the most influential and powerful buisnessmen in europe and was told, and I quote "No, we don't want you touching our machines, nor do we want to see any of our machines emulated. to ignore this could result in legal action, you must remember that *any* intellectual property of QPS meaning roms, artwork and sound are strictly copyright". – so really it was you not following the thread. You brought in the copyright card.

You also mentioned this – There have also been numerous rom floods that have made the companies close down their bulletin boards to prevent US from using THEIR matierials. – I know of two rom floods to usenet, hardly NUMEROUS. Or did you mean Gary’s rom floods to Poundrun? Also do you have direct proof this caused companies to close their BBSs? Also I ask again how many FME members had access to these BBSs? – I would guess not very many. I would also hazard a guess that JPM might have shut theirs (if they have) because of some of the ‘inner circle’ hacking it in the first place.

No, nothing has happened *yet* but if it ever does itll be too late, wont it?
So why tempt fate and push it hard? whats the point?

You can hardly go through life with the ‘what if’ mentality. I refer you to BTTF part III – ‘The future has not yet been written – make it a good one.’

Fact is if f-e push too hard they could find themselves put into a position that would force them to close, they would probably avoid legal action but they would have to close, and what then?

Yeah because loads of emulation projects like MAME have been stopped haven’t they? You have absolutely no proof ANYTHING detrimental would ensue.

As for the line "some of us know what really happened etc" well it's nice to know one of us was on the other end of the phone listening to the conversation, maybe you should post a log of it?

You been altering the quotes? I did not say that….snigger.

BTW, nice U turn, I thought youd quit?

Where have I said I have quit on these forums? Or any forums for that matter?  your cop out that…. Badoom tish. Also to prove just how predicable you are….
Session Start: Sat Aug 21 12:19:45 2004
[12:20] <Trouty> keep an eye on fruit emu for me.... I bet Andy says 'thought you had quit' or words to that effect :-)

[PJ]

...‘The future has not yet been written – make it a good one.’...

I think that's "The future is whatever you make it, so make it a good one" - Dr Emmett Brown

A better version of this, to go with the context of this thread a bit more would be from Terminator II - "The future is not set - there is no fate but what we make for ourselves."...

[Geddy]

[quote name='PJ][quote=Troutman']...‘The future has not yet been written – make it a good one.’...[/quote]
I think that's "The future is whatever you make it, so make it a good one" - Dr Emmett Brown[/quote]

Shite I knew I should have not bought my copy from that dodgy looking Asian bloke at the market..... fanny

[Bencrest]

[quote name='"Troutman"][quote']Because Sega (jpm) are no longer making AWP's and so will not find any profit in them. [/quote]
What has that got to do with anything mentioned? Have you read this thread? They do still make fruit machines though I guess?

I thought that JPM were moving onto that Heber / Pluto tech thingy? In which case, I doubt that they are no longer making AWPs. Don't trust the fact that nothing is shown on their website, it hasn't been updated in the last 10 months or so :S

This thread is turning to something from Fruit Forums - a place where people are all to willing to chuck criticism at one person without having anything negative in return. For gods sake people, calm down

I think this is the most mature, least argumentative of the FME forums and don't see why this kind of post should have 55 replies when people are out their putting their conkers through the grinder to make layouts and getting F**K all recognition, not even 1 layout release thread reply.

BarcrestBenito

[eyleyro]

'The most mature' - hmmm, not sure on that one BB.

Personally I think everyone who registers should pay £1/pcm membership. What's that, £20k a month with £100 going to running of site/server costs etc and the rest going to AA or something!? Who in their right mind could argue with that, non-profit making etc!?!?

The layouts / roms are available here in a managed and controlled fashion. People will always share via p2p, bit torrent etc, and no one can stop that. But to download the files without the intro, author's notes, wip thread etc is only half the story for me.

Madman - 2 points mate:
If you use some punctuation your posts become much easier to read.

Secondly, no-one's claiming morale high ground I don't think on the (non) distrubution of their layouts. It comes down to goodwill imo. If an author doesn't want their stuff packaged in this way it would be courteous to respect that. However, they have posted the layout on the www, not the most private of distribution methods known to mankind, so another train of thought says tough titties.

[Pgamblin]

/me grabs another bag of popcorn and sits back to watch the 2nd round of the action

Personally i think its a good idea but then again we dont need all the legal shit that surrounds it.

All the layouts and roms in once place + Positvies

New people can obtain all the files rather than having to download them all individually

It is much easier to track where the files are going

Negatives

Someone has to keep it updated with every layout that is done, the legal shit, would people even bother to sign up if they knew there was all the files available in a one off download ??

Thats my input for the moment.

GG

[Bencrest]

/me grabs another bag of popcorn and sits back to watch the 2nd round of the action

Personally i think its a good idea but then again we dont need all the legal shit that surrounds it.

All the layouts and roms in once place + Positvies

New people can obtain all the files rather than having to download them all individually

It is much easier to track where the files are going

Negatives

Someone has to keep it updated with every layout that is done, the legal shit, would people even bother to sign up if they knew there was all the files available in a one off download ??

Thats my input for the moment.

GG

Well, with the negative of 'keeping it updated', seems to me that most torrents have follow up torrents, such as the GBAroms, which come as say ROMS 1>1000 at about 1gb, and then extra packages of say 50 extra roms as necessary.

Personally I would prefer to see them available for free, rather than people cashing in on them as they still do on eBay. But then you also have to respect peoples rights with regards to their creation of layouts....

I think best bet would be to include say a text file along with any distributed torrent file, so that people can see which machines are missing, and can then download them by other means. Personally, I'd like to see my layouts shared [even though they are shit, but even if they were'nt], as they could be obtained for free anyway. Any question of the legality of sharing them on a p2p network is entirely UNjustified, as they are available for free here anywhere, although they COULDN'T be supplied WITH an emulator.

BarcrestBenito

[M1Adness]

On a side note as the issue of corporations was raised earlier, Sega have now sold JPM to a management buyout.

Barcrest benito

Any question of the legality of sharing them on a p2p network is entirely UNjustified, as they are available for free here anywhere, although they COULDN'T be supplied WITH an emulator.

The initial issue wasn't with regards to whether it would be legal to distribute the layouts via p2p, it was with regards to being ASSOCIATED with p2p which is seen a vehicle for mass illegal content.

To be honest it is suprising the mass packaging is even being discussed. In the original MAME days in order to be left alone a disclaimer regarding owning the real machine or deleting from your system within 24 hours was placed on sites that had been threatened with closure. There is nothing illegal in downloading a rom for a machine that you already own - you are allowed to hold a backup copy in case of failure. It is near IMPOSSIBLE to justify that in the context of downloading 1000 machines. The chances of someone downloading a mass distribution such as this and then being able to argue that they have all 1000 machines in their back yard and wanted them for a backup reason are so infinitesimally small as to be ridiculous.

No-one is denying that P2P/Bit Torrent versions of layout distributions are out there or will be out there. We have seen such distributions. There is a big difference though in a highly public site such as fruit-emu making its own package which they then distribute via their servers and bandwidth. It's a big "Hello! Here we are!" that they could well do without.