26 replies to this topic

[jon2007]

i never seen this before but i was in a pub in bournemouth last week think it was called the brasshouse was playing make or break it was dropping but playing shit so had a couple off quid and left it sat down finish my pint and i noticed a guy who works there came over and i think he had a refill key and the girl with him was like ill do it so im sure she turned to refill mode and was topping it up with pound coins are they ment to be doing this themselfs or is it the fruit machine company who does this and does it mess the machine up i dont know much about theses keys but im guessing how much the last win is ive never seen this anywhere else like spoons etc so i thought wont be playing in here again can anyone expain what they do etc and is it worth playing when the guy beind the bar fills it up him self this was last wednesday night

[chasnbons]

That's probably why it was playing shit, as it had been refilled, not full due to people playing, for all you know someone might have dropped loads out of it, and then the barman refilled it, before you went on it.

It doesn't make any difference to the gameplay or how much it's ready to pay out etc, all it does is refill the hopper.... fooling punters into thinking that it's genuinely been filled by people playing it

[jackpotjon05]

That's probably why it was playing shit, as it had been refilled, not full due to people playing, for all you know someone might have dropped loads out of it, and then the barman refilled it, before you went on it.

It doesn't make any difference to the gameplay or how much it's ready to pay out etc, all it does is refill the hopper.... fooling punters into thinking that it's genuinely been filled by people playing it

Yeah most arcades nowadays play this old trick, either daily before they open or once a week on empty the cash boxes days.
It's to fool players like yourself to think 'hey it's dropping must be due a payout'
when in fact the machine could have paid 80-90 out and be that far away from genuinely dropping.
One way I found out was to try a pound in 3-4 different machines, if they all drop or are very close it's almost
certainly been filled.
I dropped £75 out of a crazy fruits one evening, went back in the next day and it dropped on first quid!
Be careful as some arcades do it to trick you and will even change their empty days every now and then to fool you also.
One trick a guy I know plays here is when he gets a new machine in he will set it at 98%, everyone plays it, thinks
wow what a good machine and then about a month later drops it down to 72%.
You know who you are, we all know and won't be fooled!

Edited by jackpotjon05, 29 May 2012 - 05:06 PM.

[Dougsta]

I would have thought that this is rarely done to "trick" people. It's a pretty standard book-keeping and maintenance practice in a well-run arcade or pub. You'll find most places do it outside of normal business hours, including Wetherspoons.

It doesn't influence the percentage or payouts in any way.

[jon2007]

why cant they just leave them all they are

[Dougsta]

Because they're running a business. Just like with a chocolate vending machine - when it comes time to empty the cash box, they'll refill the change hoppers too.

Refilling the fruit machine makes sure there are always plenty coins in the hopper to cover payouts. It helps them balance the books and make sure nothing dodgy is going on. Pretty sure I'd do the same if I was an operator. Moral of the story is don't blindly throw coins into a machine just because they fall down the back.

[cgleisure]

machines get refilled so they have enougth coins to pay out and i bet you would soon start moaning that it payed you out short

also it helps keep the meter reading estamate correct
i could go to most machines out on site and the readings would be spot on with what money is left after topping the hopper up

[jackpotjon05]

I would have thought that this is rarely done to "trick" people. It's a pretty standard book-keeping and maintenance practice in a well-run arcade or pub. You'll find most places do it outside of normal business hours, including Wetherspoons.

It doesn't influence the percentage or payouts in any way.

True, it doesn't affect the payouts,
however it does take the advantage away from the punter as you will not get a GENUINE drop.
Unless punters are filling up machines with 10's and 50p's etc etc, there really is no need to topup
as hoppers nowadays are self filling and rarely need topping up.
Ok, in circumstances where a note acceptor is fitted, or you are talking b3's then yes
I would agree it is very important to be filled as pound coins can be drained very quickly.
Also if the hopper is topped up with £125 as it should be in most 10p £5 jackpot machines
why would it ever pay short?
Unless the hopper is filled up with 40-50 obviously which is what often happens.
I can see why some arcades would do this for obvious reasons and Im sure most of you ARE
genuinely filling up, I just don't agree with certain individuals who DO take the pee.
Apologies to all you genuine owners.

Edited by jackpotjon05, 30 May 2012 - 02:19 PM.

[Starleisure]

Refills by pub landlords now happen more for one main reason - Hopper starvation - As CJLeisure says they dont want hoppers to run out of cash and any fruit without a note recycler runs this risk with a note acceptor fitted.

I have a few pubs that are about 60-75 mins drive from my workshop, i would rather top up when passing than get a service call 9pm Friday night as its out of coins and then loosing a nights trade.

But as said above filling the hopper is not affecting payouts or even cheating a customer - Bottom line is the machine is up and running for anyone to play.

[jackpotjon05]

Refills by pub landlords now happen more for one main reason - Hopper starvation - As CJLeisure says they dont want hoppers to run out of cash and any fruit without a note recycler runs this risk with a note acceptor fitted.

I have a few pubs that are about 60-75 mins drive from my workshop, i would rather top up when passing than get a service call 9pm Friday night as its out of coins and then loosing a nights trade.

But as said above filling the hopper is not affecting payouts or even cheating a customer - Bottom line is the machine is up and running for anyone to play.

Fair comment.
Yes I would agree with that and I suppose if a note acceptor is fitted then it would make alot more sense.
The only thing I'm saying (mainly with older machines) is it gave the punter a slight advantage knowing the machine
was about to drop by getting a drop to the back.
Take the old party games on £25 for example, if your pound coin hit the floor and you could feel it on your foot affectively
you pretty much knew it was about to go up on the board for a big one.
Without that drop, you really could not tell when that machine would go and when.
That's the only advantage lost and my bottom line point.

What do members think about the new machine changeover at 98%, getting players to believe it's a great machine
and then dropping to 72% a month later?
I must admit, that really is bang out and wrong.

[Starleisure]

But Jackpotjon05 my info was based on the pub trade not arcade stuff so i do see your point.

[cgleisure]

Fair comment.
Yes I would agree with that and I suppose if a note acceptor is fitted then it would make alot more sense.
The only thing I'm saying (mainly with older machines) is it gave the punter a slight advantage knowing the machine
was about to drop by getting a drop to the back.
Take the old party games on £25 for example, if your pound coin hit the floor and you could feel it on your foot affectively
you pretty much knew it was about to go up on the board for a big one.
Without that drop, you really could not tell when that machine would go and when.
That's the only advantage lost and my bottom line point.

when will people realise that IT DONT MATTER IF A MACHINE HOPPER IS FULL OR EMPTY IF A MACHINE WANTS TO PAY OUT IT WILL

i bet half the forum members are/were the skanks that hang round the machines waiting for people to finish playing them or saying to them u dont wanna do that here il show you how to play it with your money

Edited by cgleisure, 31 May 2012 - 09:02 PM.

[cgleisure]

The machines in my local are meant to be self filling (what ever that means) but I have often seen them getting a top up after a busy Fri/Sat night when I go in for my bacon butty. The nightclub not long ago got the £70 jackpots which are also meant to be self filling. The only way to tell if a machine has had a few quid out even after a refill is to look at the notes indicator if the 20 and 10 is off stay well away. Wish I would take my own advice some times :s

how can a machine be self filling ???? what happens if more notes and silver get put in than £1 coins

the note lights can go off for a number of reasons like a note jam or the float going under what is needed for the note acceptor

[jon2007]

Where are theses lights to look for

[thunderstorm]

Where are theses lights to look for

If there is a note acceptor fitted the lights will be above that.
In a box there will be £20 £10 £5 in orange and a blue box that lights up 'not available' when the hopper has less than the JP left in it.

[jon2007]

How do u know how many notes some1 put in

[gambogaz1]

If there is a note acceptor fitted the lights will be above that.
In a box there will be £20 £10 £5 in orange and a blue box that lights up 'not available' when the hopper has less than the JP left in it.

Not quite right. Standard setting is that once a machine goes down to £99 float in coins left, the notey switches off.

Jon you can't tell how many notes are in there.

Quite a few smaller pubs my way have what they call "Self fill" which basically means rather than fill the machine with £350, then have coins going down the back into the cashbox + notes.
What they do is float it with £100, then after a week dump the hopper, refill with £100 and the difference is their take, so there's virtually never anything in the cash box, but obviously they run a high risk of it IOU'in with it being £70 JP, and also the notey is off quite a lot preventing it from possible income from the sort of people who don't have change and don't go the bar for change either. Pain in the arse but I suppose being in a rescession they don't want £250 lying around in a machine that could be in the bank.

[jon2007]

ok cheers

[jackpotjon05]

when will people realise that IT DONT MATTER IF A MACHINE HOPPER IS FULL OR EMPTY IF A MACHINE WANTS TO PAY OUT IT WILL

i bet half the forum members are/were the skanks that hang round the machines waiting for people to finish playing them or saying to them u dont wanna do that here il show you how to play it with your money

You are missing my point completely.
£70 jackpots and note acceptors in pub trade for example are a totally different matter
and I agree with topping up for obvious reasons.

My argument is why fill up £5 jackpots and £25 Party Games for example as a drop used to give the player
a huge advantage.

By topping up machines WITHOUT note acceptors, if they are FILLED correctly, who has ever
seen a £5 jackpot empty itself?

It just won't happen.

I have played a Party Games in the past and ok yes, sometimes Ive known a £110-£120 on the board,
however if it is filled correctly it will never go empty.

My main point about dropping and the disadvantage it causes to the player is this......

Say you play a Party Games and you listen very carefully when the pound coin goes in, you should be
able to tell if it is reasonably full or VERY empty.
Lets say somebody does a £90 board and then along comes the owner and re-fills it.
You play it, it drops, you think it should go very soon, in actual fact you haven't got a hope in hell.
Maybe a £8 board from £50-£60 in if you are lucky.

That's my whole point about re-filling and how it COULD fool the player.