20 replies to this topic

[deadsy]

Daft question I know. Just wanted to add my 2 cents worth though. The JPM Emulator is great. No complaints at all. The MFME1.1 & MPU3/4_V8.75 could be better. Whilst there is an option to add a delay here, it unfortunately doesn't seem to work too well. It only seems to delay the time taken for the reels to spin. So if you're super rich like me and have a super fast super kompuder then when you get the feature board and take a bonus like "taxi" or "skillstop" your fooked. Same story for any given "true skill" feature, like er ..... I dunno ..... stop the reel on a jackpot symbol. Or the one where you try and stop the number reel on a 12. Somebody please Chris Wren and tell him there's a big bottle of Tizer waiting for him when he finishs the new emulator. 'Nuff said.

[DildoDez]

Apparantly MFME v2.0 is due for release "mid-january"

word on the street is that this delay is due to the Epoch and MPU5 techs being removed from the public release

[WARNEZ]

If you have a reletavely new machine like mine. Then the key to slow MFME down is to install Windows SP2.

Another piece of Microsoft S**T, it runs so slow under SP2 I removed it off my machine and am sticking to SP1.

SP1 is OK, but boy do you need Anti Virus Software, Spybot and a firewall.

I cant wait for the next Microsoft Rip Off (Yeah Right!) the next one will probably blow my machine up................ :wink:



Warnez

[deadsy]

Yeah, SP2 is a pile of dog dirt. I installed it on my kompuder and the basturd thing wouldn't even start, just booted up, ran system checks and then turned itself off. Microsoft are a bunch of simps. Everything they produce is tat. None of my old Windows 95/98 games work either because their emulation modes are just a sick joke. What a company!!!! All that money and all they can ever come up with is garbage.

[munsta]

Apparantly MFME v2.0 is due for release "mid-january"

word on the street is that this delay is due to the Epoch and MPU5 techs being removed from the public release

To be fair, that's nothing more than speculation and rumour. Mostly stirred up by a couple of people who like to, seemingly, do little more than cause arguments.

The actual release is earmarked at the present moment in time for somewhere between mid january & mid feburary. It depends what sort of time the coders get. All you can do in the meantime is wait patiently until the release comes.

[deadsy]

If they remove the MPU5 tech I ain't never gonna play a Barcrest again. So there.

[duplu]

If they remove the MPU5 tech I ain't never gonna play a Barcrest again. So there.

As Munsta said it was only a rumour that both MPU5 and Epoch were in there in the first place.

[Geddy]

[quote name='duplu][quote=deadsy']If they remove the MPU5 tech I ain't never gonna play a Barcrest again. So there.[/quote]

As Munsta said it was only a rumour that both MPU5 and Epoch were in there in the first place.[/quote]

Yeah those IC types are lying gits.....

[DildoDez]

If they remove the MPU5 tech I ain't never gonna play a Barcrest again. So there.

May i ask why? It's not like Barcrest and MFME are affiliated. I agree that it is mainly a rumour, but it could be true. In any case, a beta which includes MPU5 and Epoch (if one exists) will be lkeaked eventually ive no doubt.

[Bencrest]

..and in any case, MPU5 emulation is THE least important thing that could ever be included [in MFME 2 anyway]

[buzzin_nutta]

Personally, I'd much rather see Astra or Electrocoin techs over MPU5 anyday!

But I know there is more chance of bumming the queen

[Zoltar]

Although I'm not one with any influence where MFME is concerned, I would think recent techs would be better off left out.

My thinking is this....

If MFME is to be a bonefide tool for simply re-creating old/older/dead machines/techs, then theres going to be an awfully large number of machines that will never be emulated due to lack of resources.

If we are going to have any chance of emulating machines from the 80's that we don't have resources for, then the only way of doing so would be with the help of the manufacturers who just may have old roms/resources archived in dusty roof spaces and understair cupboards.

Far fetched maybe, but somewhere down the line, if the point of fruit machine emulation IS to recreate dead machines, in order to carry out this task to ultimate completion, we will need the help of the manufacturers.

Wouldn't the first step to such a goal be a scene that is at last actively seeking to avoid stepping on the toes of the manufacturers.

If having a single rom released from the manufacturers to us, the scene, to recreate a machine that otherwise would be dead for ever, is definately worth omitting EPOCH, MPU5 or any recent techs from the next MFME.

The way we still respect EMPIRE's wishes after all this time, I'm sure the scene could evolve from a selfish, arrogant and self destructive one into a self regulating, caring and considerate one with real morals that maybe even one day, the manufacturers themselves give us credit for.

[ady]

Very well written Compost, I agree 100% with your comments.

[buzzin_nutta]

Yeah well said mate, never thought of it that way...

You are 100% right though

[deadsy]

CompostCORNER has spoken plenty and made much um sense but what we don't have is any firm rules on what machines we CAN emulate (if any) without pizzing off the manufacturers. I mean - what is dead technology? All the arcades round here (Great Yarmo) have plenty of Eachway Shuffles, Exchanges Unlimited etc etc .... machines from the 1980s. I thought that the ruling was that any machine released more than 3 years ago was fair game. Who made the ruling I don't know. Obviously we wouldn't want to pizz off JPM/Barcrest/Maygay et al and have them do an Empire whereby they withdraw their support completely. I know it's illegal to download the ROMs if you don't actually own them yourself but puh-leassssssssse ...... when was the last MPU3/4 machine Barcrest made? 1985? We need NEW machines to play. And that, of course, spurs us on to play the machines in the wild, knackering vast quantities of ready cash in the process. FME. Good for the players. Good for the operators. Good for the AWP industry. Remember, the prizes are FREE! It's the amusement you're paying for.

[Bencrest]

. I mean - what is dead technology? All the arcades round here (Great Yarmo) have plenty of Eachway Shuffles, Exchanges Unlimited etc etc .... machines from the 1980s. I thought that the ruling was that any machine released more than 3 years ago was fair game. Who made the ruling I don't know. Obviously we wouldn't want to pizz off JPM/Barcrest/Maygay et al and have them do an Empire whereby they withdraw their support completely. I know it's illegal to download the ROMs if you don't actually own them yourself but puh-leassssssssse ...... when was the last MPU3/4 machine Barcrest made? 1985? We need NEW machines to play. And that, of course, spurs us on to play the machines in the wild, knackering vast quantities of ready cash in the process. FME. Good for the players. Good for the operators. Good for the AWP industry. Remember, the prizes are FREE! It's the amusement you're paying for.

MPU4 was used by [feel free to correct me if I am wrong!] Barcrest in 1996, BWB in 08/10/2000 [the last machine released by a member of Barcrest Group was Lazy Bones by BWB].

If you used MAME, you would see that a similar principle to the three year rule is in place. If you used SNES emulation, you would be aware that the last SNES game to be emulated was probably made in about 1998. So as to why fruit machine emulation needs to be focused on the machines which are available in EVERY arcade is beyond me.

Oh, I think the rules are pretty firm, just that some people won't make the effort to understand them. With regards to machines UNDER 3 YEARS OLD - they will not be hosted in the public domain. That isn't to say they can't be emulated [at least IMPACT], but you won't find them unless you are part of a 'group' that shares recent machines.

The 3 year rule has NOTHING to do with the emulation of MPU5, EPOCH et al, the reason they are not emulated is either

a) The emu coders have no desire to include them in the emulators, either for personal reasons (i) [Barcrest (current owner of Maygay/Impulse/Extreme) getting annoyed], (ii) There is no need for them to be emulated while there are plenty about, or

Not being able to emulate the platforms due to encryption, and other problems [possible, but unlikely].

As it stands, MPU5 and EPOCH will, AFAIK, be emulated as and when it is necessary - and as I have said before, as long as I can go out and buy a perfect MPU5 machine for under £100, and maintain it cheaply, there is no need!!

[deadsy]

.... we wouldn't want to pizz off JPM/Barcrest/Maygay et al and have them do an Empire whereby they withdraw their support completely.

Yeah, yeah, I know JPM/Barcrest/Maygay et al don't actually SUPPORT the FME scene like Empire did for a while and that they don't have any involvement whatsoever. I know, I know.

[munsta]

CompostCORNER has spoken plenty and made much um sense but what we don't have is any firm rules on what machines we CAN emulate (if any) without pizzing off the manufacturers. I mean - what is dead technology? All the arcades round here (Great Yarmo) have plenty of Eachway Shuffles, Exchanges Unlimited etc etc .... machines from the 1980s.

Look at it from the point of view of a manufacturer. If everyone learns these machines and they don't look like a good prospect from the owners point of view, they will more than likely purchase new machines to replace them, this can only be seen as a plug from the point of view of the manufacturer. From the arcades point of view, a number of punters go in with the misconcieved idea that they have an advantage over the machine because of the emulator, and old 'dead technology' machines will once again recieve interest, and therefore profit. Not only does it help manufacturers & arcades, but it does to a certain extent help the rose tinted spectacle wearing geriatrics who dream of the days where the most you could lose on a bandit in the space of an hour is a quid, and a jackpot was the equivalent to a deposit on a mortgage.

No-one loses out at the moment, however if newer machines were emulated, arcades would be reluctant to purchase them in case of player advantage, therefore manufacturers would not be happy, the machines sited at arcades would all be obsolete within weeks, therefore the arcades would be in bad stead, and the whole industry could collapse. I doubt it would due to the very fickle (and cruel addictive nature) of fruit machines, not to mention it would overall increase revenue on machines that were constantly being played due to the aforementioned misconcieved player advantage.

To be precise though, it's very unlikely that release current techs would have a positive impact, asides from that of the possible collapse of the industry.

[Zoltar]

CompostCORNER has spoken plenty and made much um sense but what we don't have is any firm rules on what machines we CAN emulate (if any) without pizzing off the manufacturers. I mean - what is dead technology? All the arcades round here (Great Yarmo) have plenty of Eachway Shuffles, Exchanges Unlimited etc etc .... machines from the 1980s. I thought that the ruling was that any machine released more than 3 years ago was fair game. Who made the ruling I don't know.

Ideally, yes. A 3 year old machine is eligible for emulation but lets say that the technology that this machine runs on was created 3 years ago also. This tech is still current. Then creating an emulator to emulate this 3 year old machine would infact create the means to allow brand new machines to be emulated too. In reality, it would be more accurate to state that the 3 year rule should apply to a tech rather than an individual machine. And even then, it all boils down to the motivation and determination of the coders to create such an emulator.

Sure, releases could be 'fed' to us on a '3 year and older' basis by releasing an emulator capable of running current techs. Dev tools that are available for the chosen few to basically create and control releases of old enough machines on a current tech but that has been done before and those who have been on the scene from the early years will know what problems that caused.

Infact, the implications of a similar system of 'controlled' releases for the JPM platform are only now beginning to disperse and thats due to JPM finally abandoning the tech involved.

As I've said before, I have no influence over anything within this scene. What will happen, will happen despite me and despite the vast majority of us on the scene. But if we are to be taken seriously by any manufacturer, arcade owner, or any major influence within the fruit machine industry, then we need to create an environment where we are no longer interfereing with the daily operations of them all.

The choice is ours. We can continue to shaft the industry. Pinch their machines and emulate them with no disregard, all because we want to play 'Vamp It Up' or 'Psycho Cash Beast' today, or we can take a moral stance and abide to a simple few guidelines that allow us to continue our scene without fear of retribution from those in the industry. Sure, we all know it would be great to play these more modern machines but is it worth risking the death of our scene because we pushed the manufacturers a little too far and they served legal action against us?

Who knows, maybe one day, they themselves may think our scene worthy of resources that only they the manufacturers now have. Now that to me is a worthy goal. Can we do that though?

[deadsy]

I see from Bencrest's post that Barcrest now own Maygay, Impulse & Extreme. I wonder if anyone here has any information about market share. How much is the fruit machine industry worth to all the fruitie companies & who has what percentage? It would be interesting to know is all. Here's a list of all the fruitie companies I can think of:


Ace
Astra Games
Barcrest Games
Bell Fruit Games
BGT (Defunct)
BWB - Rebuilds
Crystal
Empire Games
Extreme
Gemini
Global
Impulse Gaming
JPM
Maygay
Mazooma
MDM
Project Coin
QPS Interactive
Red Gaming
Vivid Gaming