19 replies to this topic

[aaamusements]

Do you collect modern fruit machines, and if so, would you (in theory) be willing to participate in some sort of "Focus Group" of collectors with the possibility of speaking to the Gambling Commission?

 

This process, if it happens, would have the purpose of exploring possible alternatives to the current regulations that cause issues for GENUINE collectors, when they come to sell a machine.

 

I've got some names from the MPU Mecca for older machines, and hopefully will have some possibles from the pennymachines site for much older machines - so what we really need from here is collectors of modern machines - say 90's onwards and preferably after 2000.

 

If you want to express an interest or have any questions, you're welcome to PM me.

[nails]

i thought you just bought a one-off permit and then sold it?

 

or

 

lie through your back teeth and say hopper and coin mech has been dissasembled ?!

[aaamusements]

i thought you just bought a one-off permit and then sold it?
 
or
 
lie through your back teeth and say hopper and coin mech has been dissasembled ?!

This wasn't intended as a thread for the discussion of either legitimate or otherwise illegal ways to sell gaming machines, to be honest...

[nails]

yes i know, sorry for going off topic. just i had a valid point.

 

i still sell B3 machines quite regularly but alas i have my personal management license. in regards to collectors, and the legal and illegal means to own a fruit machine, i guess the rules can be no different from say a gun collector.

[andy-1]

Send a message to Mr P on either of his sites Mr P's classic Amusements or reel fruits as I remember him saying something about the gambling commision in his weekly waffle

[NickYerPesos]

I dunno whether I count as a collector or a mover.. But I basically pull them in cheap.. Non working (as a hobby) and fix them up, keep them a little while and then disconnect the hopper etc and sell it.

As you can see from my signature I've had a few.. But this law is a pain in the arse. I do this as I have a fond passion for machines, particularly fruits, and actually enjoy shining them up and getting them bak to their former glory.

[aaamusements]

yes i know, sorry for going off topic. just i had a valid point.
 
i still sell B3 machines quite regularly but alas i have my personal management license. in regards to collectors, and the legal and illegal means to own a fruit machine, i guess the rules can be no different from say a gun collector.

I'm not sure how fruit machine collecting equates to gun collecting in any way, I'm a bit baffled really?
 

Send a message to Mr P on either of his sites Mr P's classic Amusements or reel fruits as I remember him saying something about the gambling commision in his weekly waffle

Mr P is an operator and so he's not the target of this potential consultation. 
 

I dunno whether I count as a collector or a mover.. But I basically pull them in cheap.. Non working (as a hobby) and fix them up, keep them a little while and then disconnect the hopper etc and sell it.

As you can see from my signature I've had a few.. But this law is a pain in the arse. I do this as I have a fond passion for machines, particularly fruits, and actually enjoy shining them up and getting them bak to their former glory.

It's something of a grey area to be honest... and at what point a collector becomes a dealer can be very much subjective and not really for me to decide.

Edited by aaamusements, 05 April 2013 - 09:00 PM.

[nails]

ok, imagine you have a collection of 12-bore shot guns. you need a license just like a seller of machines.

[aaamusements]

ok, imagine you have a collection of 12-bore shot guns. you need a license just like a seller of machines.

I'm aware of the requirements for keeping a shotgun, and I can't see how it's in any way relevant. For a start you need a license to legally keep a shotgun, whereas a fruit machine does not require one if it's in your private house. Furthermore the sale, disposal, theft or any other permanent removal of a shotgun from one place to another is very carefully recorded and tracked, for obvious reasons. This is not the case with gaming machines.
I'm sorry if I appear to be obtuse and pedantic on this point but it seems like a distraction from the purpose of the thread, which I was keen to avoid.

[Bencrest]

I don't know if I count as a collector really, but I've typically bought fully working machines, and then sold them on after 12 months or so. Normally only keep two at a time, think the most I have had simultanously was 4 (a pair of old SWPS - Cluedo and TOTP, and Month Python's Flying Circus and Crazy Fruits Club). Can't really get away with 4 now, not wanting to annoy the parents, so stick to 2

 

Selling them on is such a pain though that these days I'm inclined to scrap them, or give them away. I tried selling my last two machines on eBay, and every time - no matter what state I sold them as (spares / repairs e.t.c. - one of them did have a fault) the auctions were pulled and I got badly worded replies back telling me it was illegal to sell them, so didn't bother - ended up trading them both in with another collector.

Edited by Bencrest, 06 April 2013 - 07:11 AM.

[Starleisure]

All operators have to keep serial numbers and hold this info as we have to inform the gambling commission every November what machines we have purchased, sold, scrapped.

 

Why should i pay the extra money plus all the hours spent keeping records on my stock if others can do as they please?

 

I think the current rules are fair - If you want to sell a machine get the £25 permit or trade back to an operator.

 

The biggest reason the gambling commission what to stop/ hinder home/ ebay sales is due to the machines getting used in kebab shops or chip shops for dodgy funds.

[aaamusements]

I don't know if I count as a collector really, but I've typically bought fully working machines, and then sold them on after 12 months or so. Normally only keep two at a time, think the most I have had simultanously was 4 (a pair of old SWPS - Cluedo and TOTP, and Month Python's Flying Circus and Crazy Fruits Club). Can't really get away with 4 now, not wanting to annoy the parents, so stick to 2
 
Selling them on is such a pain though that these days I'm inclined to scrap them, or give them away. I tried selling my last two machines on eBay, and every time - no matter what state I sold them as (spares / repairs e.t.c. - one of them did have a fault) the auctions were pulled and I got badly worded replies back telling me it was illegal to sell them, so didn't bother - ended up trading them both in with another collector.

As I know you, I would say that your activities probably don't constitute "Trading". But it's not for me to decide!
 
 

All operators have to keep serial numbers and hold this info as we have to inform the gambling commission every November what machines we have purchased, sold, scrapped.
 
Why should i pay the extra money plus all the hours spent keeping records on my stock if others can do as they please?
 
I think the current rules are fair - If you want to sell a machine get the £25 permit or trade back to an operator.
 
The biggest reason the gambling commission what to stop/ hinder home/ ebay sales is due to the machines getting used in kebab shops or chip shops for dodgy funds.

The Single Machine Permit is not really fit for purpose as far as occasional collector sales go - it was adapted from documents used for trade sales and it just doesn't work in this context.

Also the system as it stands does not stop machines ending up being used illegally, as there is no traceability as to where machines are ending up. The seller is scrutinised but the buyer is not even recorded, so gaming machines can still end up being bought to be used illegally.

You are necessarily obliged to "pay the extra money plus all the hours spent keeping records on [your] stock" as you trade commercially in fruit machines, you are not a collector.
I'm sure you'd love it if everyone had to buy and sell a fruit machine through you - it would certainly suit your business - but the world just doesn't work like that? A cheap fruit machine might be worth selling to another private individual but I can't imagine that the trade-in that you would offer would be an inducement to sell it at all.

Thanks for your input but as the title of this thread is about collectors, it's fairly irrelevant...

 

If anyone is interested in taking place in any consultation that does occur, please PM me as this thread doesn't seem to be going anywhere and keeps getting pulled off on tangents.

Edited by aaamusements, 06 April 2013 - 05:19 PM.

[Starleisure]

As a seller its my job to get the buyers full details - So if the system was followed correctly machines would be fully traceable - The system breaks down to machines being sold without correct paperwork.

[aaamusements]

As a seller its my job to get the buyers full details - So if the system was followed correctly machines would be fully traceable - The system breaks down to machines being sold without correct paperwork.

 

Can you point me to where in the Gambling Act 2005 it states that a seller is required to obtain and keep the details of a buyer of a gaming machine?

 

Also where on the Single Machine Permit application form should I enter the buyer address? Because as you probably know the answer to that is that I don't have to...

Edited by aaamusements, 06 April 2013 - 05:31 PM.

[Starleisure]

Im going on my most recent visit from Dave Bragg from the gambling commission.  

 

I was asked to provide all the sold invoices to check not only did every machine sold have a full name and address but also a valid serial number.

 

Im not saying all this to wind you up or make comments like " its my business just buy from me " im just pointing out there are ways to sell correctly for trade and non-trade.

 

My business runs 90% on trade sales so ebay to myself is just extras.

 

Reading the thread from the first post i felt you was rather quick to jump on Nails for no real reason as he just pointed out the facts as they are.

 

There are many collectors that sell machines a few weeks after purchase meaning surly they should also be subject to income tax.

[aaamusements]

Reading the thread from the first post i felt you was rather quick to jump on Nails for no real reason as he just pointed out the facts as they are.

 

I don't think I was "jumping on" Nails for his comments - but I was (and still am) baffled by his irrelevant comparison between gaming machines and shotguns - and the fact that it was distraction from the subject (and still is).

[Starleisure]

I think in a round about way was trying to say if sold correctly the seller would fill in the correct details making the machine movements show up just like selling a car.

 

The gambling commission will never stop the wrongly sited machines but hope by us ( License holders ) they can cut the numbers found out there - They see ebay and i guess your site as something they need to try and stop due to no paperwork being used.

 

Again the above is not said to provoke or offend - But we get very tightly monitored and other get away with everything.

And regards to the Nails bit, maybe i mistook what was said.

[aaamusements]

In many ways I agree. I personally think the ownership of machines should be traceable in much the same way that a motor vehicle is - as it's the only way that illegal use and siting of machines can be tackled.

 

Why traders have to provide details of buyers, and "private" sellers do not, is clearly an anomaly that needs to be looked into, and I will continue to raise it with the commission along with the other issues.

[Daryl]

I have received a request to close this thread because it has become a distraction to what the post was made for originally.

No posts have been offensive in this thread, and no forum rules have been broken, but because I have been asked to close the thread by the author, then I am only too happy to do so.

*** Thread Closed ***

[Daryl]

* * *   THREAD REQUEST UPDATE   * * *

 

13 April 2013

 

This is an update to this thread, that has been requested by aaamusements via PM to ask the following.

 

Anyone interested in taking part in a focus group that he will be having with the Gaming Commission... could you please PM him HERE and ask for further details if this is of any interest to you owning real fruit machines and the new licencing laws that are coming into effect with them.

 

Thank you

 

 

Daryl

Fruit Emu Moderator