Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

we should be spending billions on bathtubs not terrorism ?


  • Please log in to reply
37 replies to this topic

#1 policematrix

policematrix

    Junior Member

  • Regulars
  • 226 posts

Posted 11 June 2013 - 08:19 PM

Every year, on average, 40 Europeans die in terrorist attacks. When you compare the policies and billions plown down into this number, you quickly discover that we should not be spending billions to fight terrorism, but to fight bathtubs. Over five times as many people drown in bathtubs every year.

I’m a very strong proponent of evidence-based policymaking and putting quality requirements on the legislative process, and therefore, I require hard data to justify decisions and policy. When researching this topic, the strangest thing about the number of fatalities from terrorism wasn’t the number itself, but how hard it was to find. It seemed to never have been published anywhere by any single European bureaucracy. It seemed that policymakers weren’t interested in quantifying the threat.

You can find lots of data on terror in Europe (causes, groups, police forces, etc) when searching for it. You just can’t find what danger it actually poses.

So I needed to do the basic research myself, and tallied all terrorist attacks in Europe over the years 2000-2009 from the RAND Database of Worldwide Terrorism Incidents. 403 people died in Europe over a decade from terrorism, almost half of which in Madrid in 2004, and an additional 50-ish in London in 2005. This gives us an average of 40.3 people per year.

This number needs to be put in perspective, to understand if 40 people per year is a lot or a little. Apparently, it must be a terrible lot, since so many repressive policies are justified by this number, right? So next, we go to the European Detailed Mortality Database to compare this number to other causes of death in Europe.

To our surprise, we find that drowning in bathtubs kills over five times as many people as terrorism – 223 per year! We need to pull all the taxpayer billions from fighting terrorism immediately and put them to work against bathtubs. They are more than five times as dangerous as terrorism!

Even more, over six times as many die from falling off chairs – 254 people per year. We should be spending billions fighting chairs!

Worse still, 941 people per year die from falling out of beds – 941 people per year. That’s over twenty times as many as die from terrorism.

This leads us to the conclusion that fear-mongering policymakers don’t want to see published in hard data:

The data doesn’t justify the decisions and policy.

But we haven’t gotten to the worst European killer in this collection yet. One that kills over a hundred times more than terrorism. This evil killer, this savage monster that reaps European sons and daughters like wheat in the field. This cause of death reaps 4,362 people per year.

I speak, of course, of the staircase.

155043_1331-621x349.jpg

Staircases like this one kill us because they hate our freedoms and want to destroy our way of life.

4,362 people die every year in Europe from falling down staircases – over two orders of magnitude more than terrorism. Since we’re spending billions fighting terrorism, we need to spend at least trillions fighting staircases, according to the data.

Now, these numbers are presented to show that the danger from terrorism is minute compared to other causes of death, and that taxpayer funds spent fighting terrorism isn’t justified by the actual threat as displayed by hard data. Thus, there are ulterior motives. Control, perhaps. Profit, perhaps. Scaring people into submission, perhaps. Excuses for wiretapping and surveillance, perhaps. All of the above, perhaps.

To defend the policies, you’ll have no hard time at all finding a politician who will react to these numbers claiming that the number of fatalities from terrorism is so low just becausebillions are spent fighting it. This kind of bullshit statement ranks straight up there with “We pray to these rocks every night for the sun to rise again in the morning, and therefore, the sun has kept rising every morning. Our method has been a remarkable success.” In short, correlation does not imply causation – the therefore in the middle of the sentence is plain made-up bullshit.

For another illustration of the deception in this reasoning, consider the statement “Nine out of ten people who die in mountainside skiing accidents lack flotation life jackets.”

XKCD-552.png

The basics of evidence-based policy that most politicians still have to learn.

Rather, I have been anything but impressed with the forces spending these taxpayer billions. You hear the occasional “terror plot foiled!” in the media among cries of success, but once you start scratching on the surface, it turns out that the suspects were all acquitted for very good reason. I see James Bond wannabes who mostly behave like the clumsyKling and Klang from Pippi Longstocking or like the fumbling les Dupondts from the Tintin albums. In Sweden, when the security police were caught breaking the law and the constitution, they were even let off for being too incompetent to stand trial.

We could be saving many, many more Europeans by spending those billions fighting bathtubs. And staircases.

The key point of this article is this:

The hard numbers on terrorism invalidate the current policies mercilessly.

 

 

ok as you can tell i never wrote this , but it makes some good points , obviously there is a threat from terrorists but compared to other threats to human life its pretty small , heres a few facts i found myself 

 five people die on Britain’s roads every day

 Reported Road Casualties in Great Britain, 2011

Killed 1,901
Seriously Injured 23,122

 

Common causes of these unnecessary tragedies include:

Speeding
Around 430 people a year are killed in crashes in which someone exceeds the speed limit or drives too fast for the conditions.

Drink Driving
Around 250 people die a year in crashes in which someone was over the legal drink drive limit.

Seat Belt Wearing
Around 300 lives each year could be saved if everyone always wore their seat belt.

Careless Driving
More than 300 deaths a year involve someone being "careless, reckless or in a hurry", and a further 125 involve "aggressive driving".

At-work
Around one third of fatal and serious road crashes involve someone who was at work.

Inexperience
More than 430 people are killed in crashes involving young car drivers aged 17 to 24 years, every year, including over 150 young drivers, 90 passengers and more than 180 other road users.

 

your thoughts are welcome as always , oh and wear your seatbelts ;D 


hand-drawn-animated-gifs-dain-fagerholm-


#2 Guest_Brownbag_*

Guest_Brownbag_*
  • Guests

Posted 11 June 2013 - 08:30 PM

Can I ask if you smoke weed everyday ? I'm just curious as every person I've come to know who smokes weed just so happens to smoke it everyday - why do they do that if it's not addictive etc..

 

Your post reminded me of a video I liked, think you'll like it too



#3 Guest_ricardo de ponsa_*

Guest_ricardo de ponsa_*
  • Guests

Posted 11 June 2013 - 08:47 PM

Could you please tell me what medication you are on, so I can avoid it ???

Many Thanks



#4 policematrix

policematrix

    Junior Member

  • Regulars
  • 226 posts

Posted 11 June 2013 - 09:01 PM

mmm ok so i'm stoned or on medication because i post a few FACTS ? i don't get it ? if you dont like the post thats ok i just thought it would be an eye opener for some people .

as for weed being addictive ovc it is anything can be addictive especially things that release endorphins like fruities for instance but yes while it has no physical addiction it is very easy to get mentally reliant on it , good news is it takes a couple of days to rid the habit not like the dreaded ciggs they were calling me years down the line , as for my personal smoking yes i do smoke most days after tea not all day long like some people would have a glass of wine at the end of a day . that video is full of "what ifs" im giving you facts .

Again though i didn't write this i'm just sharing it so please keep it factual and not personal thanks .


Edited by policematrix, 11 June 2013 - 09:04 PM.

hand-drawn-animated-gifs-dain-fagerholm-


#5 IHartwell

IHartwell

    Newbie

  • New Members
  • 63 posts

Posted 11 June 2013 - 09:19 PM

You avatar doesn't help lol


I was thinking what the hell is this on about and to be honest I haven't read it all

After reading the first paragraph first thing that came to mind head was how many would have died if we didn't spend that money, e.g without spending on defences we could be a easy target for attack resulting in our county being taken over with god knows how many lives lost

Edited by IHartwell, 11 June 2013 - 09:20 PM.


#6 Guest_Brownbag_*

Guest_Brownbag_*
  • Guests

Posted 11 June 2013 - 09:51 PM

mmm ok so i'm stoned or on medication because i post a few FACTS ? i don't get it ? if you dont like the post thats ok i just thought it would be an eye opener for some people .

as for weed being addictive ovc it is anything can be addictive especially things that release endorphins like fruities for instance but yes while it has no physical addiction it is very easy to get mentally reliant on it , good news is it takes a couple of days to rid the habit not like the dreaded ciggs they were calling me years down the line , as for my personal smoking yes i do smoke most days after tea not all day long like some people would have a glass of wine at the end of a day . that video is full of "what ifs" im giving you facts .

Again though i didn't write this i'm just sharing it so please keep it factual and not personal thanks .

 

I wasn't trying to imply you was stoned, just something I've been wondering about over the past month and thought I remembered you posting legalize cannabis thread (I just checked and it was Cannabis and your views) I should have posted it their but y'know.

 

I don't have a bath tub anymore just a shower cubical, I don't really have much thoughts on this thread so maybe I should stay out. peace



#7 Dougsta

Dougsta

    Stampede!

  • Silver Supporters
  • 806 posts

Posted 11 June 2013 - 10:28 PM

Your tedious ramblings ignore the non-fatal injury count in terrorist attacks, not to mention the fact that the low number of fatalities could be seen as evidence that the policy IS WORKING. You need to take off the tinfoil hat.



#8 policematrix

policematrix

    Junior Member

  • Regulars
  • 226 posts

Posted 12 June 2013 - 07:14 AM

Your tedious ramblings ignore the non-fatal injury count in terrorist attacks, not to mention the fact that the low number of fatalities could be seen as evidence that the policy IS WORKING. You need to take off the tinfoil hat.

You could have wrote "you ignore the non-lethal injury count" but no you try and act all tough online "i have no time for these tedious rambling so much so i read it and comment " if you want to discuss then do it don't try and put me down for something i didn't write .

there were 784 non lethal injuries but how many people hurt themselves in a bath ?  I recently slipped and sprained my neck 

​as for my tedious ramblings I TOLD YOU I DID NOT WRITE THIS also DON'T GET PERSONAL please learn to read properly before commenting  

I don't wear a tinfoil hat i know there are terrorists but i also know you have more chance of becoming a millionaire on the lotto than being involved in a terror attack . and yes i also don't know anyone who won a million / got attacked by a terrorist 

​Again its just an eye opener believe what you want and support what you will but please dont post any more tedious ramblings (see what i did there ;))

did you know 90 patients died from falls in hospital last year, and tens of thousands more were left injured, according to official figures.

Id rather they spend the money on the NHS and ill take my risks with terrorists 


Edited by policematrix, 12 June 2013 - 07:49 AM.

hand-drawn-animated-gifs-dain-fagerholm-


#9 vectra666

vectra666

    No1. Lurker

  • Layout Creator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 9041 posts

Donator

Posted 12 June 2013 - 08:18 AM

I'm 30x's less likely to hurt myself in the bath/shower as only wash once a month more likely to strain myself drinking tea at work or pulling a muscle farting
The more I do today, The less I do tomorrow.
Fme is alive and screaming into the 21st century!
Enjoy FME and Happy Gaming!!!!

#10 Magz

Magz

    Senior Member

  • Regulars
  • 887 posts

Posted 12 June 2013 - 12:27 PM

The problem with evidence based policy making, in the way that your article implies, is that it appears to look at the raw data and immediately draws suspect conclusions. As a result, if we followed the numbers, we'd all be cowering at the side of the roads and at the top and bottom of staircases whilst being blissfully ambivalent as someone chopped us up with a large meat cleaver.

 

If you base your entire policy decisions on mere statistics you can only ever have reactionary policies rather than being proactive which is not really very useful. If we spent nothing on counter terrorism would there be no change? Nobody knows but it seems unlikely. If we spent all that money on better cars, street policing and bathtub design instead would things be better? Nobody knows that either.

 

As a result, you have to go with what you think will be the best use of your resources. As the majority of your voters will likely be in favour of counter terrorism vs the bathtub squad that's where you spend the money.


Edited by Magz, 12 June 2013 - 12:28 PM.


#11 Dougsta

Dougsta

    Stampede!

  • Silver Supporters
  • 806 posts

Posted 12 June 2013 - 03:49 PM

Sorry, but the fact that you didn't write it is irrelevant. You copy and pasted it it onto here, which suggests you agree with it. I'm sorry you were offended, but you should think more about these types of internet article before spreading them around.



#12 Guest_barcrest junky_*

Guest_barcrest junky_*
  • Guests

Posted 12 June 2013 - 05:03 PM

I recently slipped and sprained my neck


That's a shame.

bj

#13 Guest_ricardo de ponsa_*

Guest_ricardo de ponsa_*
  • Guests

Posted 12 June 2013 - 09:06 PM

Thanks BJ.  You made me smile.

 

Here's a pic I can relate to.  I have white louvre doors(x2), cat (x2) and a tin foil hat. Does that make me a conspiracy theorist???



#14 Bencrest

Bencrest

    The furniture

  • New Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7446 posts

Posted 12 June 2013 - 11:00 PM

mmm ok so i'm stoned or on medication because i post a few FACTS ? i don't get it ? if you dont like the post thats ok i just thought it would be an eye opener for some people .

as for weed being addictive ovc it is anything can be addictive especially things that release endorphins like fruities for instance but yes while it has no physical addiction it is very easy to get mentally reliant on it , good news is it takes a couple of days to rid the habit not like the dreaded ciggs they were calling me years down the line , as for my personal smoking yes i do smoke most days after tea not all day long like some people would have a glass of wine at the end of a day . that video is full of "what ifs" im giving you facts .

Again though i didn't write this i'm just sharing it so please keep it factual and not personal thanks .

 

You are so full of crap it is unreal. Evidence that chronic cannabis abuse (you admit yourself you smoke 'most days' and it only takes 'a couple of days to get rid of the habit') only takes a couple of days to cure, or get lost. 

 

Oh, I mean chronic as in 'persistent', not the stuff you are puffing on when you post your baffling and sometimes offensive arguments on here.


Ben
 
Hopefully recovering from years of compulsive gambling and wanting to be gamble free forever.
 
Recommended reading - http://www.gamblersaloud.com/ (yes, I bought the book, very happy with it!)

#15 policematrix

policematrix

    Junior Member

  • Regulars
  • 226 posts

Posted 13 June 2013 - 10:18 AM

The problem with evidence based policy making, in the way that your article implies, is that it appears to look at the raw data and immediately draws suspect conclusions. As a result, if we followed the numbers, we'd all be cowering at the side of the roads and at the top and bottom of staircases whilst being blissfully ambivalent as someone chopped us up with a large meat cleaver.

 

If you base your entire policy decisions on mere statistics you can only ever have reactionary policies rather than being proactive which is not really very useful. If we spent nothing on counter terrorism would there be no change? Nobody knows but it seems unlikely. If we spent all that money on better cars, street policing and bathtub design instead would things be better? Nobody knows that either.

 

As a result, you have to go with what you think will be the best use of your resources. As the majority of your voters will likely be in favour of counter terrorism vs the bathtub squad that's where you spend the money.

yes you make a good point , and im not saying we should really spend all the money from fighting terror on bath tub safety merely the government have a way to spend as much as they like without any questions  

Wait what did you spend those billions on ?

Fighting terror 

Ah ok

Any details available about what you're doing or what you're spending it on ?

No its confidential 

 

As for the other comments ill just ignore them to try and keep it from a bullying contest against me , if you actually think i this article is about spending more on bathtub design then you need help , maybe stick to trying to pay your electricity bill by winning on a fruitie 


hand-drawn-animated-gifs-dain-fagerholm-


#16 Daryl

Daryl

    Forget it... I do!

  • Inactive Users
  • 2671 posts

Posted 13 June 2013 - 12:33 PM

Keep the insults down guys please...

...can I also suggest that if you want to start threads too, please do so with your own comments and views and not direct cut, copy and paste - we could all do that.

Your opinions matter from your own viewpoint - not from a quote

Thanks :)
All The Best

Daryl
 
My blogsite is here: click the icon --->   :computer:
 

My name is Daryl, I was born in 1965 and have been into FME since 2002!
 
On 23 June 2011, I was diagnosed with Alzheimers Disease  In November 2012, I was diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease and Parkinsonian Syndrome too.
 
I can be found at:
 
My new blog-site...
 
...or at Facebook here: --> https://www.facebook.com/daryl.lees
 
=======================================================

 
Visit my website on the icon above for my WebBlog, or pop over and see me on the social media at  ---> Daryl on... Facebook.png
 
=======================================================
 


speed

#17 policematrix

policematrix

    Junior Member

  • Regulars
  • 226 posts

Posted 13 June 2013 - 03:19 PM

the reason i used copy and paste for the complete page is i get told off for including links so i thought this would be easier ,

The point is not that terrorist don't exist or that baths are potential death traps , the point is the terror threat is very low compared to other threats to life , but the government has a blank check and don't have to answer to anybody because its all top secret ,

thats it really and also how the newspapers make you think the threat is constant and its going to affect you when in reality its rarer than a lotto win , I really don't see peoples problems with this thread ?  

It is factual , it does not say anything is unreal i.e terrorism , it just shows the facts and the likelihood of being involved in a terrorist attack is unbelievably low , and that there are plenty of things that can and do kill millions of people yet we ignore them , the same is applied to any drug death its front page news , yet some guy smashes up a bookies after losing £200 on roulette and the papers say "it has nothing to do with gambling " lol 


Edited by policematrix, 13 June 2013 - 03:22 PM.

hand-drawn-animated-gifs-dain-fagerholm-


#18 Daryl

Daryl

    Forget it... I do!

  • Inactive Users
  • 2671 posts

Posted 13 June 2013 - 04:07 PM

I really don't see peoples problems with this thread ?  

It is factual ,


You see PM, this is what I mean... it is only factual from the person who written it point of view

Is there a mandatory law from parliament saying it is factual - is it compulsory to say the quote is factual? I'm afraid you'll find that there isn't - you have created a thread starting with a quote from someone else, then stating its factual.

I haven't ever had a gripe with you mate, and I still haven't, but you've got to understand that quoting other people's comments and ideals, from political or organisational websites, making them a thread and then telling members here its the truth isn't going to win you member of the month with them is it?

I am just suggesting in future that you make threads and post comments that are your own views, without copy and pasting other people's quotes and using them as your own mate... healthy debate is good, but only when you are using your own views to put a point across. :)
All The Best

Daryl
 
My blogsite is here: click the icon --->   :computer:
 

My name is Daryl, I was born in 1965 and have been into FME since 2002!
 
On 23 June 2011, I was diagnosed with Alzheimers Disease  In November 2012, I was diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease and Parkinsonian Syndrome too.
 
I can be found at:
 
My new blog-site...
 
...or at Facebook here: --> https://www.facebook.com/daryl.lees
 
=======================================================

 
Visit my website on the icon above for my WebBlog, or pop over and see me on the social media at  ---> Daryl on... Facebook.png
 
=======================================================
 


speed

#19 CrAzYbAr

CrAzYbAr

    Japan bound

  • Gold Supporters
  • 2640 posts

Posted 15 June 2013 - 12:39 AM

It might be a fact, but apart from the most skeletal information, there's a lot more to it. Terrorism is very unlikely to be accidental death, whilst in my opinon, it would be that reason for death in the bathtub...Assuming the main cause is drowning... Yes, you can try and fix it, but then you're going to have bathtubs that don't fill up enough and no one will buy them. It's an unfortunate turn of events but I believe there's no homicidal motive behind any of the bathtub deaths in this case. We should be focusing our attention on being thankful that the death rate from terrorist attacks is lower than those in bathtubs, rather than being concerned about the latter, and aim to eradicate it completely.


This is a site for EMULATION purposes of older machines. Not playing strategies.
If you are more interested in playing modern machines,
visit Jackpottyforums

(DOND is around now on this site..... How long was this sig out of date...!)


#20 Daryl

Daryl

    Forget it... I do!

  • Inactive Users
  • 2671 posts

Posted 15 June 2013 - 06:22 AM

It might be a fact, but apart from the most skeletal information, there's a lot more to it. Terrorism is very unlikely to be accidental death, whilst in my opinon, it would be that reason for death in the bathtub...Assuming the main cause is drowning... Yes, you can try and fix it, but then you're going to have bathtubs that don't fill up enough and no one will buy them. It's an unfortunate turn of events but I believe there's no homicidal motive behind any of the bathtub deaths in this case. We should be focusing our attention on being thankful that the death rate from terrorist attacks is lower than those in bathtubs, rather than being concerned about the latter, and aim to eradicate it completely.


My goodness... you made me jump! :p
All The Best

Daryl
 
My blogsite is here: click the icon --->   :computer:
 

My name is Daryl, I was born in 1965 and have been into FME since 2002!
 
On 23 June 2011, I was diagnosed with Alzheimers Disease  In November 2012, I was diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease and Parkinsonian Syndrome too.
 
I can be found at:
 
My new blog-site...
 
...or at Facebook here: --> https://www.facebook.com/daryl.lees
 
=======================================================

 
Visit my website on the icon above for my WebBlog, or pop over and see me on the social media at  ---> Daryl on... Facebook.png
 
=======================================================
 


speed




2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users