54 replies to this topic

[Geddy]

PPS. Would anyone be interested in my categorised sets for Crystal Maze, they do run on MFME2, and have different games in them.

I would be interested mate even it it were just to add them to the SWP dat. Hopefully a naming convention would not be too difficult.

[elcondor]

Well, I can't upload right now (I will do tomorrow), but I have the set construction info right here.

AM1G.P1 and AM1G.P2, then AM1Z.P1 to P8 as VIDROMS, and VID.P1 as a regular ROM, gives set ACM1 v01 (Which is non-payout)

AM2G.P1 and AM2G.P2, then AM2Z.P1 to P8 as VIDROMS, and VID.P1 as a regular ROM, gives set ACM2 v01 (Which is non-payout)

AM3G.P1 and AM3G.P2, then AM3Z.P1 to P8 as VIDROMS, and VID.P1 as a regular ROM, gives set ACM3 v01 (Which is non-payout, and crashes when the SWP program tries to execute it)

This is where it gets bizarre, my information gives the following as a set:

VIDROM cr2d.p1
VIDROM cr2d.p2
VIDROM cr22_2.1
VIDROM cr22_2.2
VIDROM cr22_2.3
VIDROM cr22_2.4
VIDROM cr22_2.5
VIDROM cr22_2.6
VIDROM cr22_2.7
VIDROM cr22_2.8
ROM VID.P1

Which names itself CRY2 v2.2 - but I can't remember if it runs properly (it should do, the CRC's check out, but I recommend independent testing.

There is one last set, but since I changed some things about it to make it easier to understand, that can wait until tomorrow.

[elcondor]

Here are the sets I have:

Attached Files

•  acm3v01.zip   1.83MB   219 downloads
•  acm2v01.zip   1.81MB   136 downloads
•  acmv01.zip   2.56MB   151 downloads

[elcondor]

And more

CM3 is the one Pete already has

I've just submitted some sets to MAMEDev as well, as they are accepting some gambling games too (pure skill only - ones which have apparently fixed payouts are being duplicated in MAGE for the time being)

Attached Files

•  cry2v2.2.zip   1.97MB   142 downloads
•  crysv13.zip   2.6MB   129 downloads

[elcondor]

And here's an updated layout, this adds the LED segment support, but still won't help people who are having problems with the game.

Attached Files

•  amendedlayout.zip   3.42KB   74 downloads

[elcondor]

I noticed going through the FME archive that a lot of the graphics work on these games was done through Flair Paint on the Atari ST. Does that mean that the graphics contained within the ROMs are in an easily read format, or was that just because it was the best tool at the time?

[iamtheone]

The earlier SWP's were done on Flair Paint, then we progressed to an Apple Mac. The graphics in the ROM are compressed. We uncompressed them as and when required. A compressed 8x8 character would be stored as 8 pointers which pointed to a 32bit chunk of pixels. So an empty character would have 8 pointers which all pointed to the same 32bit chunk of pixels.

0 --------> 32bit chunk of 8 pixels (4bpp)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7

So from the above, if we had an 4 x 2 block of characters that we wanted to map on the screen. It would look like this.

HELLO_C 4 2 $F000 $F000 $F000 $F000 $F000 $F000 $F000 $F000

HELLO_C is the name of the character block to map
4 2 is the x and y size of the characters

The rest of the data is $F for the colour attribute mask (Generally $F) and the 12bit 000 is the offset into the graphics memory 0 = $C00000

The 0 offset will point to $C00000 which contains the uncompressed block as mentioned above

0 --------> 32bit chunk of 8 pixels (4bpp)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7

An to confuse you even more, we could uncompress the graphics anywhere in the 128k graphics ram. So the offset of 0 which is stored in the character blocks to map. This could have a value added to it, to point in to the correct area. So if we uncompresed the block to $C00020 then the 0 will have a 1 added to it, so that if can still be stored in the ROM as a list of offsets but it is relocatable.

So to sum up, the graphics are compressed as pixels and 8 pointers to make up each character block.

These get uncompressed in memory eg $C00000, there may be lots of them. The the characters offset are just put on the screen.

It sounds really confusing, but it's pretty much like a C64 used to do it.

I could explain further with better examples, but is it worth it.

As you can see, you can't just pull the graphics out of the ROM and view them. 8-)

[elcondor]

Thanks for that, whoever you are (I won't even try to guess at a name).

I think this is how MFME is currently dealing with graphics, but certainly this post will go on file for future reference (there isn't an open source MPU4 board yet, let alone the video addon). For one thing, bar the original datasheets, there isn't much to go on about how the palettes and things work.

If you can think of anything else that you think is worth posting/emailing please do so, as even if it doesn't help the emulation, it's always nice to know the technical bits behind this sort of thing.

I think for MFME to finally emulate your SWPs the question protection is still the main issue, that and trying to tie two different CPUs together in a Delphi application without everything going pear shaped.

[elcondor]

I managed to find Turnover - I'm not sure if this set is complete, mind.

Oh, and Eyes Down too, just to make sure that Sean can't get away with it.

Attached Files

•  eyes_down__barcrest___rom_.zip   107.96KB   70 downloads
•  turnover__barcrest___rom_.zip   251.67KB   73 downloads

[iamtheone]

Turnover and Eyes down didn't have any fancy pallette switching so if you got
Crystal maze working, how long do you think before these 2 work, and yeah, Sean will be the first to know about his infamous 'thumbs up'.

Cheers,

[elcondor]

It all depends on the protection, I'll try loading them into MFME, to see what happens.

[iamtheone]

NO QUESTION SET ALARM, with Turnover.!! I would have at least thought it would run but display scrambled questions.

[pete_w]

Try this zip

Attached Files

•  turn_over_vid.zip   580.61KB   69 downloads

[elcondor]

Noted, I'll have to inform Trouty about that.

PS. Eyes Down will probably do the same.

[Bencrest]

Great little game, if that was in the pubs around me now you wouldn't be able to get me off it

The question scrambling doesn't help though

Nice to see it runs ok apart from that though, runs far better than Crystal Maze IMHO, so it probably dodgy trackball emulation that holds that up rather than processing power?

[iamtheone]

Turnover works fine (apart from the obvious). God that machine looks so old looking back. Has anyone got Skill Trek / Eyes down or The Mating Game in a format that will work with MFME.

Cheers....

[elcondor]

Turnover reminds me of the end game of the semi-popular game show Strike it Lucky/Rich*

Speaking of Strike it Lucky, that was a game on this hardware as well, wasn't it?

Anyway, the best place to ask is here, as Pete and Gary seem to have a fairly large collection of Set 1 Question Roms.

Also, I noticed that trackball emulation seems to be the main issue with the maze, perhaps there are some optimisations yet to be performed.

*delete according to which Barrymore vehicle you remember best

[elcondor]

I've managed to find the mating game, but I don't rate your chances of getting to far with loading it - the graphics side should be fine, but I don't know about the sound.

Attached Files

•  mating_game__barcrest___rom_.zip   3.05MB   35 downloads

[Geddy]

Cheers El for the roms and all who have contributed to this interesting thread.

[elcondor]

This thread is being recompiled, incidentally, for the benefit of MAME and MAGE, as the recently unearthed non-payout ROMs appear to satisfy the inclusion rules for MAME.

So if anyone wants to add anything else that would help a competent programmer put together an MPU4Video emulation, please do so.