19 replies to this topic

[sugardaddyX]

Hi

I was in the pub recently and noticed that there was a new warning by the coin slot that read somethins like: "Please be aware that this machine will offer 50/50 chances where you are guarenteed to loose"

My Questions is this:
If the companies have been made to put this sign on then they are admitting to skanking the player and there is nothing to say that they wont make the machines even harder to to win on and when someone complains they can just say they have warned the customer. Should they come up with a more fair ways of winning a 50/50 gamble. Does anyone have any ideas as to how thy could do this?

Hope this one brings on a good descussion.

[DildoDez]

sorry for this lads, bt can someone please, for the first time ever spell the word lose properly. it's lose - L-O-S-E

sorry for that, but it irks me.

[skabaz]

you dont use skill to play a fruit machine because then the machine would be classed as a swp(skill with prizes)like trivia machines.

a fruit machine is an awp(amusement with prizes)

so basicallly on a lucky day you may win a decent amount but on most you will lose.

the companys are not breaking any law by giving you a 12 when you go lower on an 11 as the machine is an AMUSEMENT MACHINE NOT A SKILL MACHINE.

BAZ

[PJ]

..."Please be aware that this machine will offer 50/50 chances where you are guarenteed to loose"...

I've never seen that one, unless you mean 'THIS MACHINE MAY AT TIMES OFFER PLAYERS A CHOICE WHERE THE PLAYER HAS NO CHANCE OF SUCCESS'?

[sugardaddyX]

Thats the one. I have had a little drink a must of got a little confused.

Cheers

[Bencrest]

No problem, it's gone midnight, I've been at the Deacon Estate [2002 vinatge] along with Directors and Tiger, so I'll be quoting gibberish aswell soon

Anyway, as you can tell I've had plenty to drink and I'll have a go at arguing on behalf of the manufacturers [heck, they shouldn't have a leg to stand on as such but...]....

Machines are 'Amusement With Prizes'. You are paying for the entertainment [I'll admit theres VERY little in modern machines IMHO], and as such any wins should be considered bonuses. Also, consider that the percentage target percentage of say 80% WILL be achieved to a slight degree of deviation [say 79.9% or 80.1% over 10000 spins], and so the machine plays according to regulations set out by the Gaming Board of Great Britain. Any arguments about playability should be directed at them, and not the manufacturer who conform with their guidelines

In terms of 'skanking the player', if payout percentage target is achieved in accordance with the deviations mentioned above, why should a 'gamble' on lower than an 11 going to 12 and losing make a difference? It is [in software terms] no worse than a 'Psuedo Gamble' Yes/No continue, in that both will result in a lose situation in order that the machine maintain it's playing profile. It would be harder to determine percentage payout accurately if 'random' hi-lo type gambles were to be introduced, and I believe that you would not see a difference in payout.

Well, thats an attempt at an argument from the manufacturers perspective, written by someone who would fail a breathlyser 5 times over, but shows you what their position would be.

[robbo007]

As with any industry, Fruit machines are designed to make a profit for the house, or company they are owned by.

I have no issues about playing a fruit machine with a percentage of 79% say. As to an earlier poster about rollercoaster, each spin is in essence, a gamble. Why did you not collect at 6.00quid?

The best way to win at fruit-machines is to be disciplined. Quite often I have watched people playing machines who tell me "i'm going to die on this spin", and hence, they do. My question is "why the hell didn't you collect then". If i knew death was inevitable, then I would have no qualms about collecting a 2quid feature.

A large seaside arcade is the best place to win if you are disciplined. If you get nothing after a fiver, move onto the next machine, and so on.
Thats the problem of drinking and gambling. When i'm pissed, I happily watch someone empty the machine, and then I fill it up with my money :evil:

[FRUITJUNKIE1971]

L-O-S-E[/size]

sorry for that, but it irks me.

I noticed the ole fruities have loads of lovely words and phrases that all end up with the same effect as that lovely word we all love to hate... LOSE

GAME OVER..... BAR CLOSED..... RIDE OVER...... ROLL EVEN...... CONTINUE (YES/NO)...... SNAKE BITE......

There is probably loads more too!

[DildoDez]

[quote name='FRUITJUNKIE1971][quote=DildoDez]sorry for this lads' date=' bt can someone please, for the first time ever spell the word lose properly. it's lose - L-O-S-E

sorry for that, but it irks me.[/quote]

I noticed the ole fruities have loads of lovely words and phrases that all end up with the same effect as that lovely word we all love to hate... LOSE

GAME OVER..... BAR CLOSED..... RIDE OVER...... ROLL EVEN...... CONTINUE (YES/NO)...... SNAKE BITE......

There is probably loads more too! [/quote]

But that's my point, every fruity player has seen the word, yet can't spell it. I'm no scholar of english bt ffs the amount of loose loses that are kicking around is embarassing.

[nails]

perhaps a looser is some sort of sexual term or post curry disorder?

[DickDonkey]

the companys are not breaking any law by giving you a 12 when you go lower on an 11 as the machine is an AMUSEMENT MACHINE NOT A SKILL MACHINE.

You have no idea what you're talking about, Baz.

[RB]

The warning should read:

Playing this machine will:-
1:- lead to possible addiction
2:- Definitely Deplete your bank account
3:- Give you No chance of winning
4:- Maybe wreck Marriages / relationships due to points 1,2,3


Now that is more truthful..... :twisted:

[Lesoot]

The warning should read:

Playing this machine will:-
1:- lead to possible addiction
2:- Definitely Deplete your bank account
3:- Give you No chance of winning
4:- Maybe wreck Marriages / relationships due to points 1,2,3


Now that is more truthful..... :twisted:

I totally agree with all 4 of the above points !!! I have witnessed all 4 recently and blame it all on fruit machines, they are the work of the devil and I am glad I no longer play the buggers

[Bencrest]

[quote name='DickDonkey][quote=bazpeeb']the companys are not breaking any law by giving you a 12 when you go lower on an 11 as the machine is an AMUSEMENT MACHINE NOT A SKILL MACHINE.[/quote]

You have no idea what you're talking about, Baz.[/quote]

Come on DickDonkey, while you may not agree that they are Amusement machines [I don't get anything bordering on Amusement from them anymore], the fact of the matter is they are, in law, defined as Amusements With Prizes, and not as gambling machines.

Plus, Baz does know what he is talking about

[Gazeyre1966]

I suppose the defining issue here is that no-one is forcing anyone to play them, so you play them for your own "amusement". The same as anyone who watches "Soaps" on TV can become addicted to them, so can someone who plays amusement machines. The answer is....if you don't enjoy playing them....don't play 'em!!!

[DickDonkey]

, the fact of the matter is they are, in law, defined as Amusements With Prizes, and not as gambling machines.

Plus, Baz does know what he is talking about

Evidently he doesn't. It IS illegal for a fruit machine to cheat. That's why the new warnings exist, having come about as a result of the FairPlay campaign.

[kensplace2]

As stated earlier, Bazpeeb is correct. UK Fruit machines are AWP's (Amusement with prizes). They are NOT SWP (Skill with prize) machines.

The two types of machines are governed by different guidelines.

The new warnings on fruit machines are a result of new Bacta guidelines, which incidently ARE NOT LAW. Bacta guidelines are just that, guidelines. The gambling industry follows them as a voluntary code of conduct.

Funny thing about fairplay campaigners is they seem to miss the other side of the coin.... Sure a machine may kill you off on a gamble - but it will also do the reverse and FORCE wins on you when it wants to pay out.
I dont see anyone campaigning that that is unfair... After all, its just as unfair to force a win on one punter - meaning the next person is more likely to get a loss.....

If you put your money in a fruity, you are doing so knowing full well it is designed to take more money from people than it pays out in the long term.

A fruit machine wont "cheat" unless the owners have rigged it, or play it themselves when the site is shut (to make sure the machine is dead for payouts for a long time). It will offer a style of gameplay which is designed to meet a pre-determined payout percentage, but its swings and roundabouts as sometimes it forces you to win rather than lose.......

[Bencrest]

Evidently he (Baz) doesn't (know what he is talking about). It IS illegal for a fruit machine to cheat. That's why the new warnings exist, having come about as a result of the FairPlay campaign.

Evidently you don't understand the concept of illegality. Surely if it is 'illegal' for a machine to cheat, then machines would have to be banned, all turned off, or something else bizarre - a sticker does not affect the law, but gives players a warning that their 'entertainment' may come as a result of the machine being designed to pay out a low amount and as such the machine can't allow every gamble to be won.

Cigarettes are covered in shiny new warnings, that doesn't make smoking illegal.

Lets go and put huge stickers on Cranes, saying that you have no chance of winning - lets be honest, they have 'variable grab strength' and other features designed to rip off punters.

However, the fact is, people like Stuart and Alex over at FF have tried to make a difference, and thats admirable.... so I'm not going to go over that. What I will go over is the fact that you are the one who doesn't have a clue on the matter. All you have done on this forum is wait until Fairplay is mentioned and then jumped out, coming up with useless arguments and trying to cause problems.

Nothing wrong with healthy debate but I think we can do without users such as yourself.

Before you drag up the FP campaign around here, please try and get your facts straight.