119 replies to this topic

[Winnie]

I have started playing these new £500 machines recently (namely Fortune 500) and have had quite a few jackpots on them.

Personally, I would prefer to put £200 in one of these knowing that I MIGHT get my money back rather than into a BarX (which I used to play) where I am unlikely to get my money back.

I did this safe in the knowledge that no matter how many times it might have paid a jackpot before me I am still in with a chance, certainly posts on here and elsewhere have suggested this.

Until I read the following post on Amusement Arcade:

...Let's quit p*ssing about. There is % control in all the current Section 16s. The player presses the button and a number is generated. There are no paytables. It is not possible to win the jackpot every spin. What is actually generated is a YES or NO. A YES can be surpressed, but can give any win that fits in with the % control. A NO can also be surpressed to give a win, but usually results in no win. Essentially there IS a TRULY random element, but let's not get carried away. It's not much MORE random than the recent large cycle Electrocoins is it? IS IT?...

So which is it? Can you get a jackpot on any press or is there a percentage controller that overrides the RNG? If there is I for one won't play them anymore as they are just as "sharkable" as any other non-section 16 machine.

Does anyone know the truth?

[shaun2097]

i may be wrong, but i think that the machines are random as long as they are within a set %. if the machine goes over the set % some kind of control must kick in to bring the % back down. but like i said, i may be wrong, just an educated guess

[dave1de]

Question: How random are the section 16 machines

Answer: They are very random

Summary: they have a random number selecter, between 1 and 1000 i think, if the random number comes up as 1 when you press the start button, its the jp.

[nails]

RANDOM MY ARSE.

i have indeed seen those little boxes that generatte the random number. but lets face it, they are only random WITHIN the parameters.

barcrest cashino, and bellfruit spinner are classic examples of certain combinations rolling in exactly the same as youve had before. ive put £200 in a cashino with almost no wins, to get £200 roll in via wilds and cashinos.

Has anybody else played the new bellfruit poker machine? you can play it on £5 a hand!! at 98% payout. saw it pay out over £1200 in the first day.

[stevedude2]

I work for a manufacturer and have been involved in the design process of all our S16 games. Certainly the games we do are 100% random, and I'm sure all others are as well, otherwise they would be illegal.

These games work in many different ways, but are all random one way or the other. Indeed on the Poker game you mention if you get dealt a win on your first cards but don't hold them over, the same win will come back again, as there can be no player manipulation. This makes for a very dull game in my opinion - but then I would say that wouldn't I?

There is no percentage control whatsoever on these games - I know of a Random Monopoly by BFG that has been on site for 2 months or more, and overall has lost money! That's the nature of the beast...

[nails]

well stevedude, i hear what you say, and have digested it, but can only believe that they are random within their parameters.

take bfg £500 spinner i spoke of gives the same reel combinations over and over again, indeed the machine ive played has not done a jackpot in 3 months, and the barcrest cashino has lost money 2 consecutive months in a row (though im sure they will find their % eventually)

as for putting the random number generator on the back, im sure its only a matter of time untill a special edition RF manipulator is released

(thats a key fob that opens your car AND your garagedoor in one!)

[kingkallum82]

christ where can i get my hands on one of those lol

Kallum

[skabaz]

our random spinner pays out at least 1 jackpot every week.

baz

[nails]

has anybody played the machine thats 2.70 a spin? £675 jackpot??

ive had £300 5 times now, but cant get the bloody extra 2 7`s... i think its called red hot fever.

[barxfan]

Well all these stories of jackpots.. I've losts thousands in the bloody things... cashino, elvis, slotto, random spinner... never seen a damn jackpot.

And as for Cashino and Elvis, the top roulette feature is FAR from random as no way is it a 1 in 14 chance of it stopping on the £500. More like 1 in 1000. Half the time it seems to stop one either side of it.

Basically these machines are a rip-off and I refuse to play them any more.

[skabaz]

there is nothing that says on any of the section 16 machines that the top features are random.
its just the chance of getting a win line.
but i beleive the random spinner machine is a random top feature.

baz

[Winnie]

So can we conclude that these random machines aren't actually random because they are governed by a percentage controller?

Random to me means, fixed odds and therefore every spin has a 1 in (e.g.) 5,000 chance of spinning in the jackpot. This is the only basis I would play them and if they aren't then they can go to hell! I will stick to the BarX 7s!

[stevedude2]

They are random Winnie, it just depends what definition of 'random' you apply to the machine. Fact is, the result of each game is the result of an independant random decision, but the way some of these machines show the result of a game can vary a great deal. Some games such as Fortune 500 by Reflex have a game running in the background, and the reels show the result of this game in a variety of ways. Eg. The game may pick numbers that result in a win of £2. The reels then spin to one of a variety of £2 wins. These are virtual reels - designed to be able to display every result of the background game. Saying 'if that reel had landed 1 space down I'd have won £50' is not how this game works.

On Random Spinner it looks like you have a 1 in 20 or whatever chance of hitting £500 on the spinner feature. Visually this is correct, and it may well be the same in the stats, but it probably isn't. The disc wheel is simply showing the result of a background decision once again. The chance of the jackpot is probably 2%, and the chance of £20 15%, £40 10% and so on, so you'll get the £500 once every 50 features on average, rather than the 1 in 20 that it appears to be.

All of these games are mathematically worked out on spreadsheets and the percentage can be calculated to one hundredth of a percent or closer. Auto-runs of millions of games are then done to make sure the stats come out how they should. There is no control whatsoever - the numbers the RNG sends are the ones that stand.

[khards]

About time someone released an Andy-Capp S16 M/C

[chav666]

very interesting response stevedude. That certainly has explained a lot to me.
I personally quite like these section 16's. They are great value for a quick punt - I mean, where would you rather throw £2? a PARTY TIME SLOTTO?? or a bar x?? I wouldnt recommend playing them as if they are an AWP though - they will crucify you!!!

[stevedude2]

Cheers for your reply chav666.

Yeah, I'm not endorsing them in any way. They're OK for trying a quick twenty every now and then to see if you get lucky, but as for punting them for a jackpot, that's plain suicide. At least they give everyone the same fair chance. Once you start chasing though, you're screwed.

[Winnie]

So Stevedude. If I were to press start and the RNG came up with the number that corresponded with a jackpot and the machine was well over percentage it would STILL give the jackpot? And therotically if the RNG gave the same number 10 times in a row (unlikely I know!!) it would still give the jackpot each time? If this is correct then these machines (Fortune 500 is the one I play most) are fixed odds are they not? I.E. They have a 1 in 5000 chance (for example) of throwing in a Jackpot on each and every spin?

[stevedude2]

That's correct. The machine doesn't look at past history. It picks random numbers every game, and if they are jackpots, then that's it. The code can't throw them away and reselect just because it is down on the week. There is no control whatsoever. Conversely this means if the game has gone weeks without dropping, it doesn't make it any more due to pay, as every game is a '1 in 5000' every time. Same as hitting a number on roulette - the odds are the same next time regardless of what has happened before (rendering the recent numbers window pretty useless really, such events are meaningless!)

Hope this helps players understand what the games are all about

Thanks for your comments Winnie

[jamesb99_1999]

I think they should do an Austin powers randy number machine.. That would be shagadellic baby.

[stevedude2]

With a big hypnotic spiral on the screen to entrance you into parting with your cash...