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The Great Smoking Debate!


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#121 fistandantilus

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 08:54 PM

That has f*** all to do with it again It is my choice to smoke, whether it be near a child or adult you want to take that choice out of my hands that makes you quite frankly no better than a nazi.

alth


no one is arguing your right to smoke, just where you allowed to do it.

all i hear is "its my right to smoke", perhaps you would get more respect if you thought a bit about other peoples rights

I guess a lot of blokes like masturbating, should that be allowed in pubs too? why stop there, add libraries, swimming pools, public transport

just because you have the right to do something, it doesn't automatically give you the right to do it where you want

and the nazi reference is just plain stupid

#122 Guest_altharic_*

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 09:00 PM

no one is arguing your right to smoke, just where you allowed to do it.

all i hear is "its my right to smoke", perhaps you would get more respect if you thought a bit about other peoples rights

I guess a lot of blokes like masturbating, should that be allowed in pubs too? why stop there, add libraries, swimming pools, public transport

just because you have the right to do something, it doesn't automatically give you the right to do it where you want

and the nazi reference is just plain stupid


Masturbation in public is an indecent act how is that :-

a) a health risk

B) a parallel

c) even worth mentioning

alth

#123 Jimmy_mac

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 09:01 PM

again and again im trying to show you how we can both have this choice you so want.

You already told us about how your in the military and how previous people have fought for the freedom that we have

A freedom that gives us the right to choose.

Im giving you that right in of choice in an example of how to allow both parties to get their way.

Your not offering us a choice at all

#124 jamesb99_1999

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 09:03 PM

Unfortunately I like reading this debate and sometimes feel I need to join in -- sorry.. But the imposition is always by the smoker.. So to say non-smokers shouldn't go somewhere is a bit of a crock really.. Also you try telling your smoke where you want it to go it won't respond you know, I have walked over the other side of a corridor to get past a smoker and then felt physically ill from the smoke.. Sorry, but you can't control it... I can't go in to my Graddads house because he smokes, but that's his home and his choice so I respect it.. the argument doesn't work outside his walls though unfortunately.. Sorry but I have nearly died too many times just because I have to go on a work night out or for my mom's Birthday party, why should I end up in hospital???
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#125 Guest_altharic_*

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 09:08 PM

Unfortunately I like reading this debate and sometimes feel I need to join in -- sorry.. But the imposition is always by the smoker.. So to say non-smokers shouldn't go somewhere is a bit of a crock really.. Also you try telling your smoke where you want it to go it won't respond you know, I have walked over the other side of a corridor to get past a smoker and then felt physically ill from the smoke.. Sorry, but you can't control it... I can't go in to my Graddads house because he smokes, but that's his home and his choice so I respect it.. the argument doesn't work outside his walls though unfortunately.. Sorry but I have nearly died too many times just because I have to go on a work night out or for my mom's Birthday party, why should I end up in hospital???


I get the same when I put wet fingers in electric sockets its a bad idea.

alth

#126 fistandantilus

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 09:09 PM

Masturbation in public is an indecent act how is that :-

a) a health risk

B) a parallel

c) even worth mentioning

alth



no its was pointing out how stupid your argument that your right to smoke automatically entitles you smoke if front of mothers and kiddies if you wished

again i ask you, what about their rights

#127 fistandantilus

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 09:12 PM

those who ask those around them if they mind you smoking when you light up? have you ever asked the barmaid/man or the waiter/waitress?

it is their rights that this bill is to protect, they will still be forced to breathe yours and many others smoke probably a long time after you have left


let me guess? they have the right to choose a different job, right?

#128 fistandantilus

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 09:19 PM

Unfortunately I like reading this debate and sometimes feel I need to join in -- sorry.. But the imposition is always by the smoker.. So to say non-smokers shouldn't go somewhere is a bit of a crock really.. Also you try telling your smoke where you want it to go it won't respond you know, I have walked over the other side of a corridor to get past a smoker and then felt physically ill from the smoke.. Sorry, but you can't control it... I can't go in to my Graddads house because he smokes, but that's his home and his choice so I respect it.. the argument doesn't work outside his walls though unfortunately.. Sorry but I have nearly died too many times just because I have to go on a work night out or for my mom's Birthday party, why should I end up in hospital???

I feel for you james, I really do, what smokers don't seem to realise is smoking is everywhere, you can't seem to escape it. The other week some ignorant git smoked a cigar in a ice cream palour i was in. It stunk the place out for ages after he had left. Kids were holding their noses. Just because the majority of people smoke, it does not defend it in any way

I am sure like altharic he was just exercising his right to do this

#129 mrgspot

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 09:20 PM

man i cant believe how long this has got, im glad its toned down because, the way this topic was going we would all be fallen out with each other not too long.
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#130 Jimmy_mac

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 09:20 PM

These people are already working in these environments, and they have chosen to work there. Even when unemployed, people will still try and pick jobs that will be of preference to them.

They may find themselves working in a clean air environment if the landlord decides to go with a non smoking pub.

You knew the risks that could be involved when you applied to join the forces. Did you just hope that you wouldnt go into a conflict and wouldnt end up with somebody trying to kill you

#131 fistandantilus

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 09:30 PM

These people are already working in these environments, and they have chosen to work there. Even when unemployed, people will still try and pick jobs that will be of preference to them.

They may find themselves working in a clean air environment if the landlord decides to go with a non smoking pub.

You knew the risks that could be involved when you applied to join the forces. Did you just hope that you wouldnt go into a conflict and wouldnt end up with somebody trying to kill you


I am very sure a lot of barmaids work there not by choice but necessity, a of young mothers work in pubs due to the flexibilty of the hours and the low qualification requirement.

joining the army (for me) was a kind of scarifice of my choosing. Why should a barmaid be forced to sacrifice her health to provide for her family

Why should a barmaid be forced to sacrifice her health just so you can get a high from your cigarette?

#132 Jimmy_mac

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 09:36 PM

it really isnt worth continuing this debate.

Your so blinkered with your visions its like talking to a brick wall.

All i have tried to do throughout is offer a middle ground so that we can all carry on happily.

My sugggestion of seperate licensing is one of only many.

An inclusion of improved ventilation will help those that work at bars. If you look carefully in wetherspoons pubs you will notice that they have heavy extraction systems directly above the bar tops, this removes smoke from the bar area.

A conversion from already installed units in most places is very minimal and will draw smoke directly away in an instant, preventing them from evn coming near the smoke, this goes for the entire pub area.

I've worked previously in pubs and restaurants for years and seen how easy it is.

Most modern pubs have a very clean atmosphere due to such systems.


However none of this will get across to you because your far too stubborn to see another point of view.

I have taken yours on board and tried to offer solutions.

#133 fistandantilus

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 09:41 PM

Sorry but it just seems to me that its up to everyone else to make provisions to safe guard themselves from the smokers habit

sounds the wrong way round to me

#134 gary

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 11:55 PM

Move the anti smokers up north,smokers south and then we can blow smoke at em when the winds right and they can ... well umm errr blow nothing at us .. he he while they find new shit to bitch and whine about we can party...yeeeeeeeeeeee haaaaaaaahhhhhhh ... hey wheres the smiley with a fag in its gob??

#135 kensplace2

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Posted 01 November 2005 - 03:20 AM

First off, where did I ever say that one evil excuses the other?
Get your facts straight before you start name calling, not that I expect anything other from the army these days, tried the paras out and one of my "olders" would have turned in his grave at the attitude shown by the corporal in charge, bullying sucks, but seems to be common place in the army, and also even in forums by ex army people by the looks of it.

Bullying is shouting someone down, incorrectly, without caring about the facts. I ask you again, where did I do what you acuse me of?

Secondly - Do you use a mobile phone?

I dont like mobiles, they have a fairly powerful radio transmitter in them, and the scientific community is undecided on the exact damage caused by them, but they do have a classification rating, proving some does happen.

I dont like mobiles being used next to me, should I demand a ban on them? Will you move outside to make a phone call? Not exactly a serious point, as its not something I am that bothered about, but its similar to passive smoking, as it could effect people......

Thirdly - the nazi reference was harsh, but I can see the link, hitler had views he wanted to impose on others, our government is doing the same thing. If they want to be taken seriously, then surely they should start with the biggest killers first? And they should consult the public. I did a search on google, and Im sure I found a poll that said only a small percentage of people actually wanted this ban.....

Fourthly - Mention is made of how many more people are affected, not dead.
Surely if more people die from cars, then surely MORE people will be affected from cars, than from passice smoking, that argument does not hold water.

Fifthly - There is no world war at the moment, and many of the people who were in the war joined up because they were either drafted, or because there was a genuine reason to do so at that point.

Six - Being overly abusive does not help a debate.

Seven - Whats wrong with non smoking areas in a pub?

eight - What comes next after a smoking ban? Once one thing gets through, its easier to implement more things - look at history, and how adolf got to power.....

#136 Dr DX

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Posted 01 November 2005 - 04:51 AM

You gave bencrest a load of abuse[/b] and then moved on to me, my mistake was trying to reason and then getting pissed off by it all.

It is my and your right to think some of you on this forum is an idiots (not all by any means and I am sorry if anyone thought this).

I feel strongly on this subject and just think it is a crying shame that smokers who have commented in this forum generally seem to be too selfish to see the potential danger to the health of bystanders.

As for my comment for the general public it has nothing to do with the army. Someone shouts bomb and the public kill themselves in a stampede trying to escape from something they have no clue its location, a classic example. A crash happens on the motorway and a pile up is caused by people in the other lane gorping at the accident, generally groups of people seem to be far more idiotic than individuals, football hooligans for example lol, the list is endless. Again I think your been far too pedantic with my statements


first off i did not give bencrest a load of abuse secondaly i am a non-smoker and i agree in health and wot not but you did come on far too strongly and everyone has their own options on what they want to do in life.
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#137 Guest_altharic_*

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Posted 01 November 2005 - 05:43 AM

again i ask you, what about their rights


You want me to have none............


alth

#138 Guest_altharic_*

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Posted 01 November 2005 - 05:46 AM

Thirdly - the nazi reference was harsh, but I can see the link, hitler had views he wanted to impose on others, our government is doing the same thing. If they want to be taken seriously, then surely they should start with the biggest killers first? And they should consult the public. I did a search on google, and Im sure I found a poll that said only a small percentage of people actually wanted this ban.....


Was that the mori poll where it was 33% yes rest were no/undecided, harsh no fact stating yes?

alth

#139 mrgspot

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Posted 01 November 2005 - 08:43 AM

I think its worked, no more abusive posts from abusive non smokers...

I can not stand foul language like that. and if i had my way the persons in question would have been banned from this website

G
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#140 Magz

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Posted 01 November 2005 - 09:28 AM

Out of interest, does anyone actually have a decent summary of what is and is not going to be covered by this ban? Whilst allowing smoking in pubs is (especially regarding the length of this thread) certainly a contentious point, it would be interesting to see the views on both sides for and against smoking in other establishments. Are ciggies going to be banned from indoor (are there any other?) fruit machine arcades? Would it be banned in casinos, now that they are going to be open to the general public (I assume that they would currently be OK as they are effectively private menbers clubs)?




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