83 replies to this topic

[ady]

first of all yeah it would stand in court if you have been caught on camera doing it and witnessed by more than one person.
and this whole legallity of section 16 machines is getting a bit boring.

In addition Baz...or a single copper who can even arrest if he HAS REASONABLE GROUNDS FOR BELIEVING .... there don't really have to be any video in that case....In fact a copper can stand in Court if he see an accident and he can in his opinion state a car was speeding...without a speed gun!.

And yep....is getting boring.....

Either play them and enjoy....or leave them alone...easy really

[g-man]

I know the law darn better than you--

Really?
I might be a high court judge for all you know.

As someone who was banned years ago from most of my local arcades simply for knowing how to play machines completely *legally*, I don't have much time for arcade owners and operators.

Most of the small arcade owners I met when I was still a player were semi-gangsters. They certainly weren't above using threats and violence when they thought a player was turning the tables on them and knew they could get away with it.

Ok, some of them have since gone respectable, but pardon me for choking on my cornflakes when I hear defenders of arcades take the moral high ground.

[nails]

thats well funny -

"He was equipt with two full £5 bags of 10p`s your honour"

perhaps the fine should be subject to s16 rules?? (random fines)

[topdogg]

i cant believe im reading some of these posts. its a joke surely, there is not a hope in hell of the bell fruit emptier standing up in court, regardless, sure you will be thrown out of dingy acades but as for this scare mongering regarding fraud and theft no chance, absolutely not, video evidence is overated, god there are people who have got away with clicking the old bar xs in my area on technicalities so this bellfruit cock is simply an invitation to slotters to roll up and fill there boots, an invitation that is being gratefully accepted around here. a lot of people are getting barred yet i know of only one thats chipped, GET UR WHEEL OUT FOR THE LADS!!!!!

[skabaz]

to the above post

have you read the industry paper called coinslot????

if you haven't read this weekly paper then it would open your eyes to some of the court cases against fraud(which this method of playing the machine is)that do stand up in court.
if you have then i suggest you read it again so you can see the court actions against people emptying machines and then getting large fines.

baz

[jamesb99_1999]

I am going to sue all the arcade operators for emptying my bank account. Those operators have manipulated me in to losing thousands over the years (the programming error in my brain not withstanding), I have also been conned in to leaving 10/20p in hundreds of machines where they retain part credits which should be illegal (how much have we all lost in part credits over the years??). Also where their machines don't pay out because they haven't bothered filling them and then say you they won't have to give you the money back.

I reckon over the years none paying machines (or swallowing a £1 - something the operators always tell me is now impossible) has cost be thousands.. Sue them I say..

But I am only really playing devils advocate as I really don't give a cats nads about any of it .

lol

[lincs1]

lol james i can see u on the front page of coinslot battle against the giants.

however it does state on 99% of machines that no part refund is given so thats 1-0 to the giants already. and the operators always follow the guidlines of BACTA anyway as they are the amuesment body of all arcadians and operator's alike.

BACTA is topdog i'm afraid to say


lincsleisure1

[nails]

lets say, for the sake of argument, i was caught using a `method` that gained money from a machine, in a way not stated on the machine.

in due corse i was charged and taken to court.


What i would like explained to me, is why these programmers get away with it in the first place. to say that the latest bellfruit scam was down to sloppy programming, i just dont buy. The vamp it cheat was down here in the south, even before the machine had arrived. As for the senario of having a particular machine that has a `free` win, is total fraud, and that free win list goes way back, to maygay days, and as recent as king kebab.

Club machines dont have emptiers (apart from £1000 club money to burn)(oh look another bellfruit) simply because when i club machine is bought, it stays there for years, typical machnies like CC+R need months upon months for the cashpot to grow. AWP`s on the other hand, only have so many months as a front line machine, even then, the popularity of the machine has a great influence. It is my sole belief that emptiers are put there on purpose, to lower the value of the machine, and generate more trade for the manufacturers, period. You might think my idea is way out of line, but think about it.

i do have a question for the programmers on here -
if say, you had a program, many many many pages long, what sort of length of time would it take you to spot the problem (its not a crash error, but merely a setting to be changed), the reason for the question, is that, as previously said on a thread, i had the supercharger cheat firsr hand on a tuesday, and by wednesday morning they were all chipped up. What sort of time does it take for a large manufacturer to -

A. be aware of the problem
B. find the problem and fix it in the code
C. issue the re-chip and get it to the vendors

is all this possible in a day, is it hell. Bellfruits latest problem had been out since the release of the machine, my local arcade found out by 2 guys trying it. 3 days later they get the alert, and a week later the patch is issued. Do you think its possible for, for example, Barcrest to have a stockpile of `new chips` ready to be issued, and all they are waiting for, is the cheat to be found?

the truth is out there m8`s

[lincs1]

thats why nails that all the maufacturers have bulletin boards so if there is any hickups in the programmes or updates they then get put on the bulletin board for that purpose. single site operator's normaly download all updates and blow them on e-proms and replace the 1's in the machine, arcadians normaly contact the manufacturer for the update if they don't have access to a prom copier. the arcades are informed by telephone or email if a glitch has been found


lincsleisure1

[Sarky]

It is my sole belief that emptiers are put there on purpose, to lower the value of the machine, and generate more trade for the manufacturers, period. You might think my idea is way out of line, but think about it.

I strongly suspect what you say is true. Especially so with Barcrest who seem to have emptiers in every game they produce. They either have exceptionally incompetent programmers and testers or something fishy is going on.

I doubt the Bell Fruit thing was deliberate. It's not subtle enough. A good emptier is hard to find and when it doesn't work the player keeps trying because he thinks he might've done it wrong. And therein lies a possible motivation for programming them in deliberately - once word gets out every man and his dog will be spending extra money on that machine in order to try to get one over on it. What they don't realise of course is the exploit is now fixed and so all they're doing is increasing the cash box take.

if say, you had a program, many many many pages long, what sort of length of time would it take you to spot the problem (its not a crash error, but merely a setting to be changed),

If you can reproduce the fault consistently then it would not normally take very long at all to find the problem. Certainly considerably less than a day. Length of time to make a fix depends on what the problem is.

[GaryMPU34]

Lets say the emptier is a programming error and nothing deliberate and how the manufacturer would go about tracking down the bug.

example (based on a real machine with a fault now chipped out, no names)

description of machine.

Hi tech awp with cash ladder and feature ladder, one of the features is a true skill reel roulette. On the board you get bonus nudges to change the layout of the reels during the feature. machine is set on 10p £5

Problem

Machine decides at time of entry how much it can afford to pay and how high up the ladder it can go to give a feature that will not exceed this value. At time of entry the reel roulette feature can only pay a maximum of e.g. £1 due to the layout of the symbols, the machine can afford to pay £1.20 so reel roulette is deemed a good feature by the machine as it will pay less than the maximum payout that feature. This stays true until a bonus nudge is given which then brings a jp symbol into view. RR now will pay £5 but it is not blocked as as impossible feature. Therefore RR is taken and the machine gives a JP which it cant afford. Repeat the procedure until machine is empty.

How it is found.

The machine logs in internal meters how many times each feature is collected compared to number of times the feature board is offered, RR will be spotted as always being collected so the problem is isolated to that feature. The manufacturer would then look at ways the player can manipulate that feature to their advantage.

How it is fixed

Once the problem is isolated the program can be altered to, for instance, land on an add 2 to features when you are one off the RR therefore bypassing the feature unless the symbols in view can produce an affordable win. There would be an extra check put in after each in feature nudge to make sure RR is still a selectable feature.

Time scale.

Once the arcade operator provides the internal game metering the manufacturer will be able to fix the bug in a matter of hours

[LeoSlyFox]

hi im leo, a long time slotter and fruity addict, ive palyed probably every fruit machine on the market and despite my great understanding of little tricks and indicators ive never have made consistent profits.

recently ive changes my ways and started having a flutter online and found an amazing fault in an online roulette gaming system that will finally make you so money.

details are on my link removed

[frankie4fingers]

lol. That'll learn ya

[nails]

how many posts did this guy do?

[frankie4fingers]

I think he started a new thread somewhere using that identical post

[ady]

how many posts did this guy do?

This bloke did ONLY 3 nails....2 Of them identical.

I remember you questioning the MOD's before when someone was banned!

Basically we don't have to answer to you, but just so you can rest i'll tell you on this One occassion--He was here to sell 'his method'....

Let him either Buy a banner or post it on Ebay.

I'm not going to leave any post that has a link that can lead to anybody losing money via an unknown site....Okay?

[nails]

the trouble with leaving posts is that you cant tell a persons tone by the way they type. i had looked through a few threads and seen this guys post in multiple places, and, out of sarcasim i wrote `how many posts etc` in the above message.

now i read adydb explaining that people do not have to answer to me.



thread spilt.....

[nails]

bugger me with a fish fork! this is a cut and paste jobbie of a forum post i received from the CMA. have omitted the offender.


Hiya,

Got arrested and charged with theft for 'playing' a certain £500 jp lo tec.

Anyone any advice?

Court in 8 days (if it doesn't get thrown out)

Police think its a waste of time, and have no idea what to do about it but
were just doing their job I guess.

Arcade owner is looking forward to seeing me in court....

Cheers,

Ross
p.s. is it possible to sue for loss of earning in this game?!?! The ower
was straight on the phone with my description to a few places, and
undoubtedly will be circulating my image (is that illegal without
concent?!?)

[ady]

the trouble with leaving posts is that you cant tell a persons tone by the way they type. i had looked through a few threads and seen this guys post in multiple places, and, out of sarcasim i wrote `how many posts etc` in the above message.

now i read adydb explaining that people do not have to answer to me.



thread spilt.....

No If you read my thread nails I said the MOD's do not need explain their actions to you....

Don't toy with my words!

[ady]

bugger me with a fish fork! this is a cut and paste jobbie of a forum post i received from the CMA. have omitted the offender.


Hiya,

Got arrested and charged with theft for 'playing' a certain £500 jp lo tec.

Anyone any advice?

Court in 8 days (if it doesn't get thrown out)

Police think its a waste of time, and have no idea what to do about it but
were just doing their job I guess.

Arcade owner is looking forward to seeing me in court....

Cheers,

Ross
p.s. is it possible to sue for loss of earning in this game?!?! The ower
was straight on the phone with my description to a few places, and
undoubtedly will be circulating my image (is that illegal without
concent?!?)

Well there you go...nicked!...whatever the result I said it was an Arrestable Offence (that's presuming that 'playing' means 'cheating) from the start.

And If you are 'playing/cheating' a machine of course your image can be passed....just as in any Pub or Shop, and they don't even need a reason to ban you in the first place---and if you did return it would be classed as BURGLARY!